Working on a City Template

[RangerWickett]

Hm. I had an odd idea.

What if you had a class and level system for cities and nations, for a sort of world-wide RPG? Something like Risk, only you're a city, and you can level up as you get more people.

 

[Dremmen]

Hm. I had an odd idea.

What if you had a class and level system for cities and nations, for a sort of world-wide RPG? Something like Risk, only you're a city, and you can level up as you get more people.

Actually Ranger, I was wrestling with an idea along those lines. I'm in the middle of reading (well, listening) to the Game of Thrones series, which involves some large scale combat the likes could not be easily copied in D&D, mini rules or no since it involves thousands and thousands. Minis would have to stand for literally 100s of men each to scale things right and the end result would be clunky. However, a system of mass combat done mostly on paper, with a few rolls, modified appropriately for unit types and commanders and conditions, etc, would be a better way to RPG a kingdom in strife. And where your idea comes in Ranger is that cities would have a ranking based largely on defenses and garrison, and this number would be used in its defense as well as to get a general idea for how tough a city would be to crack. The city ranking would change as you sent men to garrison it, or took men to bolster troops.

But I digress from my original topic. If anyone does know of rules for mass combat drop a line. Risk, as fine a game as it is, is decided too much by the die roll, but the idea of quick mass combat is attractive.

 

[Arnwyn]

What do you all think? How would you modify it?

It's pretty good - I like the detail.

To this day, I use the FRA (Forgotten Realms Adventures) city format, which serves me well. With that in mind, I would modify what you have with:

- Notable Characters section (just a name + Alignment/race/sex/class/level)
- Notable Rogues or Thieves' Guilds (I notice you have guilds, but it's under Commerce)
- Notable Adventurers' Amenities (taverns and inns, maybe shops)
- Notable City Features (unique sites)

 

[Dremmen]

It's pretty good - I like the detail.

To this day, I use the FRA (Forgotten Realms Adventures) city format, which serves me well. With that in mind, I would modify what you have with:

- Notable Characters section (just a name + Alignment/race/sex/class/level)
- Notable Rogues or Thieves' Guilds (I notice you have guilds, but it's under Commerce)
- Notable Adventurers' Amenities (taverns and inns, maybe shops)
- Notable City Features (unique sites)

Actually in the FR book one of the things that disagrees with me is how much space is spent on the stats of NPCs. However, it would be good to get an idea of folks like notable merchants, nobles, the harbor master, etc. So I'll put that in there, probably under Features. I would say a Rogue's Guild would most certainly be under Commerce, as would a Wizard's Guild as much as a Mason's or Glasier's guild. They all would impact the economy of the city.
The Amenities is one of the changes that I had put in already, thanks to a nifty website that S'mon had shown me. It'll be not only types of businesses, but number and quality. Look for it in the final version
City Features are meant to go under Features, but I guess I can't cover all the posibilities. I think I'll add a space under Features where you can fill in your own unique ones. Good ideas arnwyn, many thanks

 

[MetalBard]

It's pretty good - I like the detail.

To this day, I use the FRA (Forgotten Realms Adventures) city format, which serves me well. With that in mind, I would modify what you have with:

- Notable Characters section (just a name + Alignment/race/sex/class/level)
- Notable Rogues or Thieves' Guilds (I notice you have guilds, but it's under Commerce)
- Notable Adventurers' Amenities (taverns and inns, maybe shops)
- Notable City Features (unique sites)

I would list notable neighborhoods as well. Many fantasy cities are lacking the characterization of neighborhoods that were formally towns that grew together into cities. London, New York, Boston, Washington D.C. and Budapest are all cities that I've been to where different neighborhood names were old town names and were still used and the difference between the neighborhoods was quite noticeable.

 

[S'mon]

Lugo in Spain, a walled city that I lived in for a while, measures about half a mile from wall to wall. But that wall was built by the romans so its predates what we're talking about.

The modes of transport (feet, horse, cart) didn't change between Roman & medieval times though. If anything medieval towns tended to be smaller because the economy was rural-based, Roman culture was much more urban in orientation. The largest city in medieval England was the city of London, 1 sq m within the walls but sprawling beyond, maybe 100,000 by end of the period. Largest ancient cities were ca 1 million people over maybe 20-30 square miles, ie about 5 miles across.

 

[S'mon]

Re mass battles - I use War Machine which is in the old D&D Rules Cyclopedia & Companion sets, it's perfect for your purposes being an abstract system. It has rules for assaulting fortresses, which give a base +50 on a d% roll (plus various other benefits); being behind a wall gives +20, cities could give a variable number between 20 (stockaded village) & 50 (citadel).

 

[Dremmen]

Re mass battles - I use War Machine which is in the old D&D Rules Cyclopedia & Companion sets, it's perfect for your purposes being an abstract system. It has rules for assaulting fortresses, which give a base +50 on a d% roll (plus various other benefits); being behind a wall gives +20, cities could give a variable number between 20 (stockaded village) & 50 (citadel).

I've also heard Cry Havoc is good for mass battles. Do you know anything of those rules from Malhavok Press? Its made more for 3rd ed., which is why I'm leaning towards it. I'm going to try to hunt down a copy of these War Machine rules you mentioned and see what they're like. Cry Havoc is actually meant for battle in the 100s. I was looking for battles in the thousands, so I was going to tweak and massage the rules to work. If War machine can handle the bigger numbers, I'd go with it.

 

[S'mon]

I don't have Cry Havoc - I have Fields of Blood which looks like a workable minis-based system. I like War Machine because it can handle literally any size battle with no increase in complexity; I find it especially handy for battles in the hundreds of thousands.

Edit: In Fields of Blood 1 mini = 100 men so it handles battles in the thousands ok, but not hundreds of thousands.

 

[Dremmen]

I don't have Cry Havoc - I have Fields of Blood which looks like a workable minis-based system. I like War Machine because it can handle literally any size battle with no increase in complexity; I find it especially handy for battles in the hundreds of thousands.

Edit: In Fields of Blood 1 mini = 100 men so it handles battles in the thousands ok, but not hundreds of thousands.

Cry Havok handles units at a max of 50 men per mini. Well, I've aquired the Rules Cyclopedia as well as Red Arrow, Black Shield which apparently has expansion rules to War Machine, from RPGnow for $10. I'll peruse and see how it works. Its sounding pretty nifty as of this moment.

Again S'mon, many thanks for your insights. Once this City Template is complete I will pdf it and post it..somewhere.