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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Phantarch" data-source="post: 6766896" data-attributes="member: 6801685">Conceded. As we all know, 72% of statistics are made up on the spot, and such is the case with my "100 times the work" comment. I would still argue it generally takes more time and more effort to be a DM than to be a player, but it is certainly conceivable that somebody can DM with little to no effort, though I personally think that would not make for a very interesting game.I did not mean to imply that there should be some sort of toe-licking groveling to the all-powerful DM. I more was trying to imply a mutual respect and appreciation. I should perhaps also mention that I'm coming from the perspective of someone who has probably been a player 75% of the time and DM'd 25% of the time. My opinions are mainly framed from the perspective of a player grateful for the DMs that I have had, NOT the perspective of a DM frustrated by players that I feel are ungrateful.I think there's been enough back and forth in this discussion to show that some people enjoy a restrictive campaign and some people don't. People have different play styles. It's enough to say, "that's not my preference" without accusing people of badwrongfun.Apart from play styles and preferences, I also think it's only fair to realize that different people have different strengths. If a person offers to DM, I assume that what they present and any associated restrictions are related to what that person feels they can confidently organize and develop that will still be enjoyable to them.Regardless of the reasons (play style or comfort level), my choices as a potential player are to create a character that the DM and I can mutually agree on in the offered campaign, inquire if the DM is interested in running a different campaign, offer to DM instead, or find another group. None of these outcomes need to or should result in animosity or hard feelings on either part.I have a tendency to discuss topics using extremes in the attempt to find a reasonable compromise. Basically, if you hit the walls enough, you'll eventually find the middle of the room. As such, the examples given were intended to be extreme and silly; not as a straw man argument to prove player choices are dumb, but as an attempt to find the outliers of the topic.A previous example was given of allowing a Wookiee in a Lord of the Rings campaign setting (something I find to be about on par with a half-fiend troll with laser eyes). Some have argued that this should be acceptable, and that a DM is being unfair for not incorporating it. My counterpoint is that it is unfair of a player to demand that a DM incorporate it. The result of addressing these extremes is that it is unfair to accuse a person of DMing incorrectly for either allowing or denying this "character concept". It's a question of play style. Both are equally valid, and different people have different preferences. That's where the appreciation and respect come in.I think the same lesson, though, still applies when bringing it closer to home of a DM not including "standard" player's handbook races or classes. It's not a matter of being wrong; it's still a matter of preference and play style. However, it now becomes a question of reasonable expectations. A DM who opts for an extremely restrictive campaign setting should reasonably expect that there are far fewer players that want to play with such restrictions. It would then be reasonable advice to say, "If you really want to DM, you'll have a better chance of finding players if you loosen up a little."So, to rephrase the point I was initially trying to get to, DMing can be a very energy and time consuming activity. Potential players should appreciate and respect that fact by either trying to work with the campaign setting offered or finding an acceptable alternative (different campaign, different DM, or different group). Equally so, potential DMs should realize that the more restrictive they make their campaigns, the less likely they are to find like-minded players. Therefore, potential DMs should respect the fact that players may decide NOT to participate in their campaigns.What I find unacceptable are the implication that people are somehow playing the game wrong if everyone involved is having fun and the expectation that either DMs or players are obligated in any way to participate in a game that they do not find fun.</blockquote>

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