[World Design] Implications of a longer day

[Aexalon]

The following are a few attempts at presenting a couple of Circadian cycles, as a way to channel the discussion. The outer ring represents the physical day-night cycle (in this diagram for a position on Garden directly facing the planet), the inner ring represents the circadian cycle being proposed in the image. Midnight is at the bottom, dawn on the left, noon at the top and dusk on the right, and every segment represents one standard hour.

• 40h/20h:
  The upside: simplicity (a simple scale-up of our 24h day).
  The downside: ever tried staying awake for 40 hours? Also, there is a suboptimal use of "night light".
  Applicability: might be a good template for nocturnal animals (rotated by 30 hours); might be a good template for races that are known for remaining awake for a long time.
  
  
  
  
  
• 30h/10h/10h/10h:
  The upside: no waste of midnight light, less long day.
  The downside: assymetrical, complicated, not that great a solution to the long waking hours problem.
  Applicability: might be a good template for diurnal animals.
  
  
  
  
  
• 14h/6h/14h/6h/14h/6h:
  The upside: symmetrical, noon siesta (to deal with the midday suns), optimal use of midnight light, reasonable day length.
  The downside: probably perceived as very complicated and possibly even artificial.
  Applicability: might be a good template for races (humanoids) who aren't too fond of the noon sun.
  
  

Do any of you have an opinion on these three? Other ideas for cycles? Different applicabilities for these or other cycles?

General comments remain welcome as well, of course.

 

[Clueless]

This for me insinuated a possible 10-10-10-30 activity cycle for planetward-living cultures (where you're up all day, but also in the middle of the night, when the planet is full). Obviously, this is a complex behavioral pattern, and it's exactly because of that that I am soliciting additional ideas from you folks here.

There is some strong indication that human sleep patterns of the past, before indoor lighting became a safe and common thing followed a split cycle like what you've described. The phrase 'beauty sleep' is a misnomer originating from the idea of segmented sleep. From a human perspective the second period of awake (which was in the middle of the night) was used for meditation, prayer, establishing personal relationships with spouses, playing with the children, visiting neighbors or writing - all very much non-work related activities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segmented_sleep

Given what you're saying about the concern for how long the races stay up vs. not - the 'have you ever tried to stay up 40 hours?' question - I've got a bigger question for you. Are the races native to this world or not? If they're not native then the length of day matters. If they are - then it really doesn't matter terribly much - they will be adapted to whatever you want to do.

 

[Baron Opal]

The 30 / 10 / 10 / 10 looks reasonable to me, particularly if there are any nocturnal predators about.

I seem to recall somewhere that spelunkers who spend a long time below ground slowly shift to a 20 / 10 hour day.

To threadjack a little, if the jovian planet was at the same relative distance as our own system, but the habitable zone was at the jovian distance, what kind of star would be required?

 

[Aexalon]

To threadjack a little, if the jovian planet was at the same relative distance as our own system, but the habitable zone was at the jovian distance, what kind of star would be required?

It seems even an F0V type star only manages to push the habitable zone to where the Asteroid Belt is in our solar system. Jupiter is twice as far away from its primary. This means that you'd have to start looking at type A stars, with such main sequence examples like Sirius and Vega. These stars don't live all that long though (the only immediate data I have put even F0V stars at only 1.6Gy, peanuts compared to our (G2V) sun's 10.1Gy). This mostly eliminates worlds in such systems as a location for the evolution of life; it doesn't disqualify them from colonisation / terraforming, however.

More information (gleaned from a 2y-old ENWorld thread on axial tilt): World Builder Star Tables.

Given what you're saying about the concern for how long the races stay up vs. not - the 'have you ever tried to stay up 40 hours?' question - I've got a bigger question for you. Are the races native to this world or not? If they're not native then the length of day matters. If they are - then it really doesn't matter terribly much - they will be adapted to whatever you want to do.

As stated earlier, Garden arrived in-system a broken world. It has had ten thousand years to recover, and in that time has drawn in populations from all over the uni/multiverse. We've not decided whether or not any native population survived the hyperspace jump, but even those would've been used to the more classical (read: boring) 24h day Aiëde exhibited in her last host system. Indeed, if this world formed in its current location, and life evolved on it naturally, the issue of the longer day would not really be one.

Also, that info on segmented sleep is verrry interesting. Thanks! A waking cycle at night (supported by planetlight), and a siesta at noon, seem to point towards the 3rd (3x14/6, or 3x15/5) model, no? The midnight cycle would not be used for labor, but for non-workrelated activities.

 

[Gez]

Also, that info on segmented sleep is verrry interesting. Thanks! A waking cycle at night (supported by planetlight), and a siesta at noon, seem to point towards the 3rd (3x14/6, or 3x15/5) model, no?

3x12/8. The eight hours of rest have a strong magical significance in D&D.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

I'd expect lots of burrowing and hibernating creatures.

Face it, the temperatures will differ strongly between day and night - scorching heat during noon, and artic frost during much of the night. Thus, adapting to the conditions of a specific part of the day-night cycle and hiding in hibernation during the rest makes sense.

Erosion will be very strong as well - the constant flux between frost and heat will make short work of most cliffs. If the history of your world doesn't feature geological time scales (millions of years), mountains will still exist - but climbing them will be very, very dangerous, with rock slides happening all the time and few secure handholds.

There will be lots of storms as well, as storms are driven by local temperature differences - and this kind of killer day-night cycle will power them strongly. Coastal regions will experience frequent and strong storms, and even more continental locales will likely experience rainfall during the early evening when the humidity of the day precipitates out of the air again.

 

[Gez]

... temperatures... erosion... storms...

That is, until you factor in the local nature gods and goddesses, whose worship make the climate more clement.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

I would actually make less distinction between day and night in this world as you described it. With the brighter sky of the night and the overall length of the day, I would say that people would operate around the clock, resting when they need it, working when they are rested. Most races would take longer rests during the night cycle, and shorter ones during the day cycle.

Cultivation of "shade" crops - they grow best in the lower light of night. Some farmers work most of the night and spend the last few hours of each night shading their fields.

In some societies, a structure might be set up. Everyone takes Siesta at "noon," shops close at sunset. They tend to reopen at "midnight" for a few hours. etc. Other societies would be much more freeform, so the PCs might arrive at a shop and discover the owner has gone to bed for a few hours, taverns are always bustling with people, not just in the evenings etc.

In terms of spells and x/day abilities, with a 60 hour day, I would make it so once every half day, 30 hours, you need to regain spells and abilities would be restored. What could be interesting would be to have certain spells or x/day abilities act a little different or be unavailable during either "day" or "night."

 

[Aexalon]

3x12/8. The eight hours of rest have a strong magical significance in D&D.

That is, until you factor in the local nature gods and goddesses, whose worship make the climate more clement.

Concise ... insightful ... very "with the project". See below.

Face it, the temperatures will differ strongly between day and night - scorching heat during noon, and artic frost during much of the night. Thus, adapting to the conditions of a specific part of the day-night cycle and hiding in hibernation during the rest makes sense.

There will be lots of storms as well, as storms are driven by local temperature differences - and this kind of killer day-night cycle will power them strongly. Coastal regions will experience frequent and strong storms, and even more continental locales will likely experience rainfall during the early evening when the humidity of the day precipitates out of the air again.

The planning commission has convened on the issue, and has proposed that the Worldtree be employed to tackle the problem. Either the Worldtree could directly redistribute heat from the sunslit side of each worldlet to their shade side (the worldtree exists in every plant on Garden, after all), or the luminosity of the two primaries can be reduced, and the Worldtree equiped with metaphysical leaves collecting energy outside the surface of the worldlets, and transport it to their shade sides (possibly as a "waste product"). Either way, the sunslit sides will be cooled, and the shade sides heated, reducing the temperature extremes to more manageable levels. Strong, intra- and interworldlet storms are anticipated, and given the multi-dimensional nature of Garden, could have metaphysical consequences as well.

As for the 3x12/8 circadian cycle: here we begin touching upon game mechanics. Should we let established core rule balancing constrain world design? Granted, choices that require the fewest changes in the rules have a leg-up over others, but I advocate an inquery into options other than those that require no change at all. 3x12/8 happens to not require any changes on the resting cycle. But amongst the many options being floated by the planning commision are different circadian cycles for different races. Holding to the core rules's "8 hours of rest" soon proves a noose strangling alternative cycles.

In terms of spells and x/day abilities, with a 60 hour day, I would make it so once every half day, 30 hours, you need to regain spells and abilities would be restored. What could be interesting would be to have certain spells or x/day abilities act a little different or be unavailable during either "day" or "night."

The halfday as basis for "daily" abilities suffers from the same arbitrariness as the thirdday, except that it can be more readily aligned with astronomical events with possible metaphysical significance (like sunsrise and sunsset). A cycle the planning commission is also examining is the "lunar" one, that of the apparent phases of the gas giant as seen from Garden.

• On the plus side: all regions of Garden that can see the planet, see it at (virtually) the same phase (as opposed to the day/night cycle, which varies according to ones location on a worldlet. With worldlets fairly small, it is not that difficult to change one's local time. As a matter of fact: on a worldlet 100km in diameter, a human strolling along the equator at 30' per round can enjoy eternal day, barring the occasional eclipse).
• On the downside (literally): half of Garden can't SEE the planet.

The commission is still out on this (another possible cycle is that of the orbits of the twin suns, but no rotation period has been established here yet). Your ideas (e.g. planetlight agriculture) remain most welcome, and most enlightening.

 

[Baron Opal]

Was magic always present? If it is an artifact of the system or the failed transition then perhaps a more astrological solution may be in order.

The whole point of the eight hours of rest is that the PCs don't have access to their spells more often than one full recharge every 24 hours, or once a day. If we stretch that to 30 hours, then find something that happens every 30 hours.

We have sun- rise / set, and light maximums.

So, perhaps the magical flow is greatest with the greatest light, giving magicians recharges at noon, when the sun is at its brightest, and midnight, when the planet is at its brightest. this can give interesting opportunities to disrupt rituals at high noon, right before the magicians get their recharge. This would provide for two recharges per day.

You could also have a lunar conjunction of some kind where an inner moon provides the recharge. This would allow a recharge cycle independant of sleep or brightness cycles, but could become confusing.