World's Largest Dungeon in actual play [Spoilers!]

[Hussar]

Alternative Rules for Summoning

This is how I handle summoning in my campaign. On a side note, no one has summoned anything yet, which is kind of funny. I figure that the Dungeon was created in such a way that NOTHING extraplanar can escape. If that's true, then there must be a whole heck of a lot of spirits in each region, twiddling their thumbs, waiting for the wards to come down. I allow those spirits to power monster summoning spells so that they work as per spec. Caster summons, critter comes, spell ends, critter goes back to languishing in purgatory. And, since it works for the goose, it works for the gander. Bad guys can summon as well.

On another note, I use this same background story to introduce new characters. Since the party has been touched by a diety as part of the "Game of the Gods" concept I'm using for my campaign, when they die, their body get's reanimated by one of these spirits whose morphic resonance changes the physical body of the dead PC and alters his equipment to stay in keeping with the rest of the party. The new PC retains a few memories of the dead PC, who his allies were, why he's here, what the general plot is at the moment. This has drastically cut down on introduction problems and made bringing in new PC's very, very simple. Players have the option of losing one level and coming back with a new PC or taking over one of the NPC's. It's worked rather well considering I've had three PC deaths in 17 sessions. Almost had two more this week in the snake pit in Region B. Heh, two on the bridge was just too funny. An unbelievably lucky stabilization roll saved the Favoured Soul.

 

[Hussar]

Try having 2 clerics in your party.
They ruin everything!
The fireblast in the Pyrefaust did nothing to the party because they have double the divine protection from fire sources.
Healing certainly isn't a problem. You don't have just one guy who has to stand behind the party's tank and heal him all the time. You have 2 guys saying, "Hey, how about you heal him this time so I can drop a blade barrier on them?".

Plus they spend an hour at the beginning of every session planning out and coordinating what spells they are going to memorize.

And to make things even worse, region N is not even scratching them. If it weren't for the traps, there would be no real damage at all.
Nothing neutralizes undead faster than 2 clerics, each with all of their 4th level spells filled with Death Wards. And one of them memorizes a quickened Death Ward.

Oh well, at least my players are clever.
I guess I'll have to increase the difficulty of the remainder of the dungeon.

Invistis is going to be bumped up 3 levels. Oh yeah, two quickened spells a round for him.
Kasteoficiss...well I might leave her as is, but her and old Invistis might call a truce. Maybe she'll wake up some of the sleeping ones.
Vinarra...dead. Party killed her in a nice big fight. I'd kept track of all of the wraiths (dread and normal) that fled from the party and put them all in this fight. I even doubled her hp and the party still had no losses.
The Judge...never had a chance. I even reduced his insanity to just the first round.

And they still have the Tyrus the dragon.
Let's do some math here, ancient dragon that was imprisoned in this dungeon 1000+ years ago. Ancient dragons max out at 1000years. Hmmm...

If you don't mind a bit of tactical advice BBR, here's an idea for region N. Note, that while creatures cannot step into other planes, they are still incorporeal while in the region, meaning they can still walk through walls, floor and ceilings, they just cannot escape. With that in mind, here's what you do:

1. Take about ten spectres and give them a couple of levels of fighter.
2. For one of their feats, add in Fly By Attack
3. Using one or two spectres at a time, make a single fly by attack on the party one to three times per hour, no matter where they are. The spectres rise out of the floor, wall or ceiling, make a single attack and then head through the nearest wall/floor/ceiling.
4. Repeat number 3 while they travel.
5. If they stop to rest, make single attack runs every twenty minutes or so with 3-6 of the spectres. Target any sleeping PC. Never stand and fight. Always travel through the nearest surface at the end of your move.

This should make your party's life pretty difficult while traveling in the region. Their defensive buffs will run out sooner or later and then the spectres specifically target clerics. Whacking a cleric with a couple of negative levels every so often makes life VERY difficult. This is a tactic I've used in the past to great effect.

Just a helpful thought.

 

[BlueBlackRed]

If you don't mind a bit of tactical advice BBR, here's an idea for region N. Note, that while creatures cannot step into other planes, they are still incorporeal while in the region, meaning they can still walk through walls, floor and ceilings, they just cannot escape. With that in mind, here's what you do:

1. Take about ten spectres and give them a couple of levels of fighter.
2. For one of their feats, add in Fly By Attack
3. Using one or two spectres at a time, make a single fly by attack on the party one to three times per hour, no matter where they are. The spectres rise out of the floor, wall or ceiling, make a single attack and then head through the nearest wall/floor/ceiling.
4. Repeat number 3 while they travel.
5. If they stop to rest, make single attack runs every twenty minutes or so with 3-6 of the spectres. Target any sleeping PC. Never stand and fight. Always travel through the nearest surface at the end of your move.

This should make your party's life pretty difficult while traveling in the region. Their defensive buffs will run out sooner or later and then the spectres specifically target clerics. Whacking a cleric with a couple of negative levels every so often makes life VERY difficult. This is a tactic I've used in the past to great effect.

Just a helpful thought.

Thanks for the help, but it won't work.
I've had fights where there were dread wraiths, each with spring attack, who attack the party by springing out of then back in to a wall.
It's a good tactic, but the party simply does not stay in region N without their spells. And spell number one is always Death Ward.
And they don't rest in region N. They return to the garrison in region E, whom they are close friends with.
Their tactic is:
Wind Walk from the garrison to a neutral room in region N. If I block their way, they go around the blockage somehow, or stop and remove it.
When they solifidy in that room, they immediately get to work casting hour per level spells and Death Ward. If there is something in the room, they just flee at high speed away.
When they are exploring they have a constant Detect Evil on from either a paladin or a cleric.
When getting ready to bust down a door, minute per level spells are cast. If they are guaranteed a fight, or are paranoid, round per level spells are cast.
If there is a fight, they win. If there isn't a fight, or the fight was short, they begin a "charge through the dungeon".

Eventuall that last part will catch up to them.
I can't nerf Death Ward, and I won't give every monster out there a way past it. So I'm going with my last option; waiting for them to get complacent with it.

Remember I'm not trying to kill them, just give them a worthy challenge.

 

[Jim Hague]

Thanks for the help, but it won't work.
I've had fights where there were dread wraiths, each with spring attack, who attack the party by springing out of then back in to a wall.
It's a good tactic, but the party simply does not stay in region N without their spells. And spell number one is always Death Ward.
And they don't rest in region N. They return to the garrison in region E, whom they are close friends with.
Their tactic is:
Wind Walk from the garrison to a neutral room in region N. If I block their way, they go around the blockage somehow, or stop and remove it.
When they solifidy in that room, they immediately get to work casting hour per level spells and Death Ward. If there is something in the room, they just flee at high speed away.
When they are exploring they have a constant Detect Evil on from either a paladin or a cleric.
When getting ready to bust down a door, minute per level spells are cast. If they are guaranteed a fight, or are paranoid, round per level spells are cast.
If there is a fight, they win. If there isn't a fight, or the fight was short, they begin a "charge through the dungeon".

Eventuall that last part will catch up to them.
I can't nerf Death Ward, and I won't give every monster out there a way past it. So I'm going with my last option; waiting for them to get complacent with it.

Remember I'm not trying to kill them, just give them a worthy challenge.

Hm. I'm thinking to myself - 'self, BBR has a serious problem. He's got sneaky, thoughtful players who're moshing their way through the dungeon willy nilly, and that'll get boring.' Well, we can't have that, so let me think...

I'm thinking it's time for a golem. Yup, a golem. They're all buffed and prepared for the undead, who can't be trusted not to eat any living compatriots, so a golem's a good, solid solution. Grab a flesh golem or six and throw 'em in there. Why? The creatures in power in Region N did a nice deal with Mahir in I - in exchange for the golemized slaves, valuable magical components were traded off. Or, if you want something more recent, the Spider Kings could have brokered the same sort of deal...

 

[zeist]

Just as a question, what books are people using?

I am just using the SRD. It makes things very simple.

Zeist

 

[BlueBlackRed]

Hm. I'm thinking to myself - 'self, BBR has a serious problem. He's got sneaky, thoughtful players who're moshing their way through the dungeon willy nilly, and that'll get boring.' Well, we can't have that, so let me think...

I'm thinking it's time for a golem. Yup, a golem. They're all buffed and prepared for the undead, who can't be trusted not to eat any living compatriots, so a golem's a good, solid solution. Grab a flesh golem or six and throw 'em in there. Why? The creatures in power in Region N did a nice deal with Mahir in I - in exchange for the golemized slaves, valuable magical components were traded off. Or, if you want something more recent, the Spider Kings could have brokered the same sort of deal...

Yeah curses for me finally having some players around that thing before acting.
It finally allows me to throw some real danger at the players and not get "Killer DM!" whining.

Golems are a good idea. But a flesh golem isn't...not for these guys. There's been some recent talk from one of the players who has it in his head to cast Simulacrum and copy an iron golem. I shot that down because I believe the intent of the spell is to copy living or once living creatures. A flesh golem might give him another idea.

The best weapon I have against my players is psychological. Mum-rah...I mean Kasteoficiss and Invistis have called a temporary truce because the party has destabilized the region. The forces of the 2 warlords may be able to harass the party, but they can't do much to them. But if Kasteoficiss's forces are augmented by the spells of Invistis...like a one-shot Dispel Magic, that might be a challenge.

Now I just need to guide the party away from Invistis for now. I want the fight with him to be fitting for a fight with the very first lich ever. I've upped him to level 21 and given him the epic feat that allows him to cast 2 quickened spells a round. And that's just one alteration.

So I want the party to hunt Kasteoficiss first. Thanks to your suggestion Jim, she may now have a couple of Shield Guardians on loan from Invistis. That should help even things up for her. And maybe even a Projected Image of him that pops in to throw a spell at the start of combat at the party...but the range on the spell may make that a little hard. (And if you're thinking that no self-respecting lich would loan his own protector forces to his arch-rival...it's ok...Invistis has prepared for that possibility.)

So instead of having several fights against the party that are one-sided and boring, I'm going to give them a handful of fights that will take hours to resolve.

And of course, Invistis is going to torture them with his projected images. Goad them on and such...

Thanks for the help all. I may not use your ideas explicitly as you gave them, but they did trigger some other ideas. Like instead of spectres jumping out of the walls Invistis says "Hi" and then follows it up with Mordenkainen's Disjuntion

And if you think that it rough, wait until the World Eater fight and after that the Tyrus fight.

 

[Jim Hague]

Y'know there was an upgraded Shield Guardian type construct in either MM2, the Fiend Folio or MM3...or you could build one that's utilizing a 'spell battery', absorbing and relaunching spells that're cast at it.

 

[rvalle]

Just as a question, what books are people using?

I am just using the SRD. It makes things very simple.

Zeist

Yep. First time DM here... so just the 3 Core books for me. Well, mostly. I did pull some critters out of Complete Minions to add to Region A to spice it up a bit.

And to give them some survivability, they started at 2nd level with max HP's and whatever equipment they could buy from PHB with max starting gold + 1000 GP's.

We've had 8 games now (about 3 hours a game). They are level 3 now and about 1/2 - 3/4 of the way though region A. I expect the fight with long tail to happen soon and them exiting the region to happen soon after that. The characters have been in for about 5 days now.

Once they leave A they'll make 4th level.

rv

 

[BlueBlackRed]

Y'know there was an upgraded Shield Guardian type construct in either MM2, the Fiend Folio or MM3...or you could build one that's utilizing a 'spell battery', absorbing and relaunching spells that're cast at it.

Ya know, I haven't looked at any of those books in so long it's sad.
Dang giant modules...

Thanks once again Jim.
I've got some homework to do before the guys show up tonight.

 

[Qwillion]

"Wind Walk from the garrison to a neutral room in region N. If I block their way, they go around the blockage somehow, or stop and remove it.
When they solifidy in that room, they immediately get to work casting hour per level spells and Death Ward. If there is something in the room, they just flee at high speed away.
When they are exploring they have a constant Detect Evil on from either a paladin or a cleric.
When getting ready to bust down a door, minute per level spells are cast. If they are guaranteed a fight, or are paranoid, round per level spells are cast.
If there is a fight, they win. If there isn't a fight, or the fight was short, they begin a "charge through the dungeon"."

How about a targeted greater dispel magic
or a mord's disjunction.
or a ott's greater dispelling screen

I also have an undead that is going to be published that might be right up your ally it uses fear and a necromatic curse effect rather than a level drain or death attack. I think it might be right up your ally. I would post it here but it is part of a publication and the artwork is not completly ready if you want it email me at worldsmith at gmail dot com