Worst Published Adventure Starts

[Retreater]

Level is a an out of game construct not an In game construct. A NPC can’t tell the difference between a 5th level fighter and a 1st. Plus presumably that merchant that sets them the quest doesn’t have Elminster’s mobile number. Even if he was free.

Problem is ... the Elminsters of the world are also going to be dying off. You'd think they'd ... do something?

 

[Reynard]

Problem is ... the Elminsters of the world are also going to be dying off. You'd think they'd ... do something?

Like, end of the world stakes are completely unnecessary. Stop doing that. Make adventures that have real personal stakes and give GMs and players advice how to embrace that.

 

[Wofano Wotanto]

I'll admit it was an original and exciting way to start a new campaign, but I guess it looked different from the other side of the DM screen. My players hated it so much they almost walked away from the whole campaign, and they still give me flack for it almost a decade later. That was the real problem, IMO.

Looking it up online, it's a first level adventure. The PCs have nothing but starting gear to lose and haven't done anything yet - they barely exist beyond backstory. Where's the attachment coming from that it matters if they die? Re-use the same character sheet and have Bob the Fighter #2 wash ashore next round. Done. Alas poor Bob #1, we didn't know ye.

This isn't arbitrarily wrecking an experienced party with assets that really matter and the possible ability to avoid a wreck altogether. This is a party of newbies straight out of CharGen with no stakes in the game and if the GM says they just survived a shipwreck they're already ahead of all the drowned men in the surf. Moreover, the PCs probably have immediate access to better gear and loot than what they own right on the beach with them, left behind by the wreck.

And given their expected level just how dangerous are these attackers? Are we talking hungry crabs nibbling on toes? Opportunistic castaway looters trying to make sure they get to keep the loot? Random scut-quality undead? Is the threat really immediate, serious, and fast enough to prevent the PCs from just grabbing some stuff on the way out and legging it if they don't want to even try defending themselves?

I could see some classes being much worse off than others initially - some casters are going to be frantic about their spellbooks or other gewgaws, for ex, while martials can just pick up a broken plank and go clubbing - but was this opening situation really so badly balanced that there was no chance of survival, or more likely victory and immediate gear upgrades? Really doubt it, somehow. Paizo not usually that bad at low-level stuff.

Going by info provided, the problem isn't the opening, it's the players not trusting the GM to avoid putting them in a hopeless situation before they've made any choices at all. I'd have let them walk and told them good riddance if I were you.

 

[TiQuinn]

The Village of Hommlet.

Hey guys, here’s a village. The first building is a farmhouse with a 0-level villager with 6 gp, 23 sp, 10 cp and a +1 short sword hidden under the floorboards. Go ham, I guess.

Oh yeah, there’s bandits around and there’s a spy at the inn but if you kill him, someone will send a 7th level assassin after you.

Did I mention there’s a moathouse? Yeah, okay, think that’s it. Have fun adventuring!

 

[CleverNickName]

Looking it up online, it's a first level adventure. The PCs have nothing but starting gear to lose and haven't done anything yet - they barely exist beyond backstory. Where's the attachment coming from that it matters if they die? Re-use the same character sheet and have Bob the Fighter #2 wash ashore next round. Done. Alas poor Bob #1, we didn't know ye.

This isn't arbitrarily wrecking an experienced party with assets that really matter and the possible ability to avoid a wreck altogether. This is a party of newbies straight out of CharGen with no stakes in the game and if the GM says they just survived a shipwreck they're already ahead of all the drowned men in the surf. Moreover, the PCs probably have immediate access to better gear and loot than what they own right on the beach with them, left behind by the wreck.

And given their expected level just how dangerous are these attackers? Are we talking hungry crabs nibbling on toes? Opportunistic castaway looters trying to make sure they get to keep the loot? Random scut-quality undead? Is the threat really immediate, serious, and fast enough to prevent the PCs from just grabbing some stuff on the way out and legging it if they don't want to even try defending themselves?

I could see some classes being much worse off than others initially - some casters are going to be frantic about their spellbooks or other gewgaws, for ex, while martials can just pick up a broken plank and go clubbing - but was this opening situation really so badly balanced that there was no chance of survival, or more likely victory and immediate gear upgrades? Really doubt it, somehow. Paizo not usually that bad at low-level stuff.

Going by info provided, the problem isn't the opening, it's the players not trusting the GM to avoid putting them in a hopeless situation before they've made any choices at all. I'd have let them walk and told them good riddance if I were you.

Yikes.

The thing is, I play D&D with my friends, not strangers who wander up to my table at a convention. I care about their attitudes, opinions, and enjoyment. They put a lot of thought and planning into their characters and backstories, and they trust me to make the game interesting, fun, and fair--and to them, that first encounter was none of the three. Ignoring their complaints, watching them walk away, and then consoling myself with thoughts of "good riddance" isn't how I treat my friends.

 

[Wofano Wotanto]

Yikes.

The thing is, I play D&D with my friends, not strangers who wander up to my table at a convention. I care about their attitudes, opinions, and enjoyment. They put a lot of thought and planning into their characters and backstories, and they trust me to make the game interesting, fun, and fair--and to them, that first encounter was none of the three. Ignoring their complaints, watching them walk away, and then consoling myself with thoughts of "good riddance" isn't how I treat my friends.

And where's similar consideration for you? Yeah, you were using a module instead of a homebrew so less work put in, but they didn't trust you enough to play through one opening encounter, and they're still razzing you about it almost fifteen years later? That's not how I'd want to be treated by anyone who claims to a friend.

Yikes indeed.

 

[TheSword]

Problem is ... the Elminsters of the world are also going to be dying off. You'd think they'd ... do something?

Get our, Elminster hasn’t done anything for anyone in ages. He’s a codger. Plus most named characters in FR haven’t been resurrected that I’m aware of from the fiction. I remember reading about it in the last mythal series and when they did it, the dude was pretty pissed that he’d been ripped out of paradise.

Plus as I read it, it was a slowly building Death Curse. Like the bubble had made it as far north as Baldurs Gate but not Waterdeep or Shadowdale etc.

Last point. Even if none of this was true, if all chance at resurrection was gone would you step into the unknown or would you arrange through agents for several disposable parties to make the investigations instead?

 

[CleverNickName]

Tomb of Horrors gets a bad rap, but it can be a really fun one-shot in older editions of the game. (It has an infamously bumpy start.)

I remember a fun night in the early 90s when my college roommate and I ran through that adventure at a friend's birthday party. (I was already familiar with the tropes and pitfalls, so I kept my mouth shut and let my fellow players "enjoy" the dungeon's many deadly surprises. Even so, my cleric didn't make it out alive.) But it was all good; we just rolled up more characters and kept going.
It was a lot of fun!

The 3rd Edition reprinting of it, not so much. After spending over an hour rolling up your character (seriously, creating a 3E character at that level can feel like filing your taxes), nobody was amused to watch them get annihilated before they could finish their first beer. And the idea of "just roll up another character" was laughable.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Like, end of the world stakes are completely unnecessary. Stop doing that. Make adventures that have real personal stakes and give GMs and players advice how to embrace that.

Man, I would LOVE for WotC to write an official Adventure that gives a DM a lot of tricks, tips, and advice (through example) on how to make personal stakes for the PCs. Do a LOT of work with NPCs - give the party friends, family, loved ones - threaten them. Get the PCs out to rescue them. Some true emotional stakes.

Maybe I should consider working on the kind of thing that I'm talking about...

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Get our, Elminster hasn’t done anything for anyone in ages. He’s a codger. Plus most named characters in FR haven’t been resurrected that I’m aware of from the fiction. I remember reading about it in the last mythal series and when they did it, the dude was pretty pissed that he’d been ripped out of paradise.

Plus as I read it, it was a slowly building Death Curse. Like the bubble had made it as far north as Baldurs Gate but not Waterdeep or Shadowdale etc.

Last point. Even if none of this was true, if all chance at resurrection was gone would you step into the unknown or would you arrange through agents for several disposable parties to make the investigations instead?

I also think that the implication was that those powerful NPCs were quite possibly withering away from the Death Curse, and it was likely that they were using all of their efforts just to survive. Not exactly a position where they could go solve the problem themselves. They may have had to put themselves in protective stasis. The specifics are vague, and probably as varied as the NPCs themselves. (Or in other words, much too much to bother with in the book, other than to say "they're not here in Chult, and the "sample suffering NPC" Syndra Silvane shows you the sort of thing that they might be going through.