• The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!

WotC has ended support for Living Forgotten Realms (and the RPGA, too)

Status
Not open for further replies.

WolfStar76

Explorer
Wolfstar76,

First - thanks for the post.

You're welcome, [MENTION=20741]Steel_Wind[/MENTION]. I'd appreciate it if you wanted to spread some of what you've learned here to other threads you've started, like the one on the Paizo forum.

While chilling in assorted forums (fora?) is part of my task list as a LFR Point of Contact admin - I'm afraid that jumping into that thread on the Paizo list will give an appearance of pot-stirring. At the least, if you'd be so kind as to link to my original post in this thread, that'd mean a lot.

Secondly, it is unclear from the manner of the language you employed in your post as to just exactly who "we" and "our" means. There are a lot of pronouns used in your post.

By "we" do you mean "Wizards of the Coast" and you are speaking for WotC here?

Or when you say "we" do you simply mean the LFR admins who are administering this community run program now?

My apologies for not being clear - I've edited my original post to clarify.

While I do have some volunteer stuff I do for WotC in their forums (Where I'm a Senior Volunteer Community Leader mostly revolving around RPGA/WPN OP and DDI) - for the purposes of this thread, I'm speaking as an LFR admin.

If "we" means WotC and you are speking for WotC, then ok. It seems a little odd given your present address, but fair enough.

If by "we" you mean the LFR admins, when the issue as phrased touched and concerned WotC's direct support? Then as you might appreciate, that might be a little confusing to readers.

Maybe it's just too early in the morning, but I honestly don't understand your question?

Nobody was suggsting that members of the community were not releasing modules for LFR. The question concerned what WotC was doing for LFR.

Well, your wording what that the plug had been pulled (false), and nothing had been released (VERY false). I hope you can see why such a mis-conception would cause me concern as worded, I hope?

Are you aware of what, exactly, the RPGA is being used for now? If there is no reporting requirment or membership necessary to participate in organized play -- then what, exactly, is its current function? Is if fair to say it's unclear, or is there some other function it now serves that I am failing to understand?

Well, let's step back a bit, and look at the way WotC sees it's D&D Organized Play programs to get a better picture of things.

For years and years, the RPGA was D&D Organized Play. Living Greyhawk, Legend of the Green Regent, Living Death, Xen'Drik Expeditions - and a handful of other programs I can't rattle off the top of my head were all programs under that umbrella.

As of early last year (from a public point of view - I'm sure the work started internally at least a half-year before that), support for a new Organized Play program started. Born, I suspect, of the merger of the RPGA and DCI databases into what's now called the Wizards Play Network.

New programs - like D&D Encounters, Game Day events, and future programs that come direct from WotC are all part of a rather blandly named "D&D Organized Play" program. This program is headed up by Chris Tulach, who used to run and organize the RPGA (and was a member/player before that - so his heart is truly in Organized Play, he's a great guy). And at least one other person has joined his team now as well - which is great news, as Chris used to be a one-man army doing EVERYTHING for the RPGA.

The RPGA by contrast, has been turned into WotC's community-driven organized play arm.

What does that mean in terms of support?

Well, a few things. One, as LFR Admins, we can lean on WotC for support here and there. If a new rulebook comes out that invalidates some portion of the LFR Campaign Documentation (The CCG) its up to us on how to "fix it" - but we can still ask WotC and the OP staff for help, suggestions, etc on how best to approach it. And does "This" option work better than "That" option. (A purely hypothetic example, mind you).

We also get support from WotC in other ways. At conventions and the like, the LFR banners and things are created and supported by WotC.

Perhaps the biggest (yet simultaneously nearly intangible) benefits we get from WotC is the use of Intellectual Property.

Living Forgotten Realms wouldn't be Forgotten Realms if we couldn't talk about Waterdeep, Abeir-Toril, Mieleki, and other names, locations and "traits" of Forgotten Realms. Without permission from WotC, while these are all fair-use for a home/local campaign, you can't distribute adventures with those references in them.

As an official WotC RPGA Campaign, we get permission to use the traits that make this Living Forgotten Realms, instead of Living Generic Campaign.
(note - while the above is all correct within my understanding of things, I am not a lawyer, I may not have the exact correct opinion of the law listed, but I think/hope I captured the spirit of the law, above).

Hopefully that sheds some light on things for everyone.
 
Last edited:

log in or register to remove this ad

WolfStar76

Explorer
How is any of this a surprise ?

It looks to me the writing was on the wall long ago.

How's it feel to be an externality, kids?

I hope you'll both ([MENTION=17308]Stereofm[/MENTION] and [MENTION=9225]eyebeams[/MENTION]) take the time to read my posts on the matter. Things are not anywhere NEAR as dire as they may seem - in fact, as one of the LFR Admins, we're really happy with the program and where it stands right now.
 

qstor

Adventurer
And thus edition wars grow stronger.

Yeah Steel Wind asked a good question and now people seem to want to bash Paizo.

Yes they charge for the Pathfinder Society organized modules. Pre late 2000, IIRC, TSR/WOTC charged for the RPGA modules. Paizo has to make a profit. $4 isn't that much to pay for a module.

It's been my experience that LFR play is strong in some areas of the US while not as strong in others. There's still a lot of tables going off around DC/MD N. Virginia.

Mike
 

Vyvyan Basterd

Adventurer
it is/was intended tobe for 4E, what Living Greyhawk was to 3.X.

I hope you'll both ([MENTION=17308]Stereofm[/MENTION] and [MENTION=9225]eyebeams[/MENTION]) take the time to read my posts on the matter. Things are not anywhere NEAR as dire as they may seem - in fact, as one of the LFR Admins, we're really happy with the program and where it stands right now.

And I think you'll be able to achieve the goal of being what LG was to 3.x. LG was community supported. WotC did not write the plethora of modules for the LG campaign. It was the regional moderators.

[MENTION=13085]Steel Wind[/MENTION], maybe it was your use of "pulled the plug" that has offended the fans of LFR. That would insinuate that the campaign is no longer active. You may have meant "pulled support" but that is not how you came across.

Yeah Steel Wind asked a good question and now people seem to want to bash Paizo.

Yes they charge for the Pathfinder Society organized modules. Pre late 2000, IIRC, TSR/WOTC charged for the RPGA modules. Paizo has to make a profit. $4 isn't that much to pay for a module.

Well, now you see how rude it is when fans of other companies level claims of WotC being "money grubbing" or pulling a "cash-grab." Stinks when people level those accusations at your favorite company, doesn't it? I'm not saying they're right to do that, I agree with you about Paizo charging for their modules. [Actually at $4 I wonder if they even are making a profit and not just covering cost.] I would just hope it puts things into perspective and quell these publisher wars, but I won't hold my breath and I'll continue to enjoy the work of both companies.
 

Evilhalfling

Adventurer
Bring us your Revenant (Warforged) Cleric of Pelor (a running gag - and yes, perfectly campaign legal)

He can play beside my Warforged Hybrid Warden/Warlord, multi-class warlock named Warren. Warren was LFR legal, and a adequate defender but now he can't start with a warsoul blade. (uncommon item) and that makes him sad.

In Denver Im paying 2$ per LFR game, and DMs get a 10$ gift card. So I'm happy pay (or receive it.)
LFR still feels well supported to me, although I only play when my home game is on a break (ie once a month average) My more fanatic friends are always running out of new adventures to play, but that's not new.
 

WolfStar76

Explorer
Yeah Steel Wind asked a good question and now people seem to want to bash Paizo.

Yes they charge for the Pathfinder Society organized modules. Pre late 2000, IIRC, TSR/WOTC charged for the RPGA modules. Paizo has to make a profit. $4 isn't that much to pay for a module.

I can't speak for others, but I don't read existing posts as bashing Paizo. Pathfinder isn't for me, personally - I'm 4E all the way - but it's a good system for people who prefer that ruleset.

All I see/came away from was that the RPGA is free, and Paizo pushes a (small) cost to organizers. That isn't a bash, it's just a difference - and depending on where you sit, it may be a major or minor one.

I think there's plenty of room for us, as roleplayers, to be fans of the hobby, without feeling the need to pick apart our particular favorite flavors.

If we were all woodworking hobbiests, would we berate each other for preferences of Ash vs Oak?

(probably ;) )
 

Well, we did have them let DDM go "community-run" a few years ago and we saw what happened there.

More and more I get the impression that WotC is putting D&D higher and higher on the shelf out of everyone's reach, and before too long it'll be "boxed away".

Unfortunately, it's sort of a self-fulfilling prophesy - don't support the game, people stop buying because there's no support forthcoming...and you cancel the game blaming no one is buying it.

Wouldnt this just be putting a dagger in the heart of WOTC as a company? Where else do they make any money to justify their existance?
 


JohnduBois

First Post
Bring us your Revenant (Warforged) Cleric of Pelor (a running gag - and yes, perfectly campaign legal), he can sit here next to this nice Hexblade for a few hours.

I'm sure you meant Amanautor (possibly Lathander), right? Because we don't like Pelor and them Greyhawk deities in our Forgotten Realms (except, of course, Moradin, Corellon, Llolth... Well, you know what I mean. Not Pelor). ;)
 

Deuce Traveler

Adventurer
I sense a pro-Paizo vs pro-WoTC fan fight developing. It seems ENWorld will be the site of a new civil war between fans.

The biggest challenge will be deciding what platform to use to resolve combat. I'd suggest Original DnD or another root DnD derivative since that's where 4e and PFR are offshoots from.
 

Status
Not open for further replies.
Remove ads

Top