WOTC: Making a statement is not making a promise

[The Little Raven]

It's not an "entirely separate product", and you know it.

You are being willfully obtuse.

D&D Insider is not built into the core books, nor was it ever intended to be.
D&D Insider does not come free when you pay for for the core books, nor was it ever intended that you would do so.
D&D Insider has it's own subscription cost, completely separate from anything else you purchase.
D&D Insider can be purchased in addition to, or without, the core books.

It is not a feature of the D&D 4e core books, it is an accessory to them, just like Dragon Magazine has never been a feature of the core books, but an accessory to them.

 

[Nadaka]

Links, Screenshots?

I'll see what I can do. A lot of the info was lost when our furums were deleted off of gleemax.

Spectaculars...
[ame]http://www.amazon.com/d20-Spectaculars-Modern-Supplement/dp/0786941456[/ame]
http://www.pen-paper.net/rpgdb.php?op=showbook&bookid=4919
http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Rec/rec.games.frp.dnd/2006-06/msg00176.html
http://oracle.wizards.com/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind0608a&L=d20modern-l&P=72

http://209.85.141.104/search?q=cach...ars&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us&client=firefox-a
http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-906394
re: Chris Perkins statement that more modern stuff is in the works has been directly contradicted by other WotC sources. I'll see if I can find them as well.

www.wizards.com/d20modern
check out the last few updates, you will see a few adventure paths never finished, and our articles dead.

Project Javelin...
The authors are regular poster here, though I do understand if they are contractually limited in what they can say. I'll see If I can find any references.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20modern/oa/20060119a
http://209.85.141.104/search?q=cach...in"&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us&client=firefox-a
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20modern/article/20051213a
http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-941392.html

Death of D20 Modern forum...


ugg... I don't really have links saved, having to scum the interwebs to find anything. Not much luck I am afraid. It would be much easier if I could remember the specific names (and user names) of the WotC employees who made statements.

 

[SavageRobby]

You know, I wish I had customers as lenient as some folks here purport to be. If I told them I was planning on delivering finished code/functionality on a certain date (<- notice, didn't use the word "promise"), and then I failed to do so, I wouldn't get paid, plain and simple. It'd be great to have customers where I could just say, "Oops. Well, I was going to tell you that it was going to be late, but I was so busy working on it I just plumb plain forgot! And you know what - its still not done. Sorry about that."


In the public world of business, customer perception is fact. If a company states something is going to be available in a certain time frame, it'd best be - or they best have damn good reasons for it not to be, and message that out well ahead of time. Otherwise it does nothing but create bad PR. Sure, some folks won't care (or have such slavish devotion to the company in question they'll defend even the most egregious blunders), but anyone that makes an explicit decision (or decisions) based on the expectations the company set by public statements, will likely be pissed, and rightfully so.

Much like managing scope in a software environment, managing expectations in a sales environment is important. Wizards sucks at it.

 

[SavageRobby]

You are being willfully obtuse.

D&D Insider is not built into the core books, nor was it ever intended to be.
D&D Insider does not come free when you pay for for the core books, nor was it ever intended that you would do so.
D&D Insider has it's own subscription cost, completely separate from anything else you purchase.
D&D Insider can be purchased in addition to, or without, the core books.

It is not a feature of the D&D 4e core books, it is an accessory to them, just like Dragon Magazine has never been a feature of the core books, but an accessory to them.

If Company X makes a statement as to an accessory that is going to be available for a product (an accessory that ostensibly makes the product better and more usable), and you purchase the product based off the expectation of the availability of that accessory, and then the company delays, changes or outright pulls the announced accessory - that is deceptive marketing. You can glibly dress it up as any else that you like, I suppose, but it doesn't change the fact that the sale was made based off a now-false premise.

 

[The Little Raven]

If Company X makes a statement as to an accessory that is going to be available for a product (an accessory that ostensibly makes the product better and more usable), and you purchase the product based off the expectation of the availability of that accessory, and then the company delays, changes or outright pulls the announced accessory - that is deceptive marketing.

No, it's called "change of plans." You claim to be in business, but don't seem to understand that things don't always work out the way you intend, and you have to adapt to changing circumstances. Changing plans is nowhere near deceptive marketing. Microsoft planned to put Windows Vista out in 2007, but had to change their plans because of circumstances, and claiming such things as deception are just silly.

You can glibly dress it up as any else that you like, I suppose, but it doesn't change the fact that the sale was made based off a now-false premise.

What does that have to do with the post you quoted, which was addressing the false claim that D&D Insider is not a separate product from the D&D 4e core books (which is a completely ridiculous claim)?

What I really gather from this thread is that WotC can do no right in the eyes of some, because if they don't preview material, they're hiding something, and if they do, and *gasp* it actually changes because it's an in-development product, then they're liars. Whatever they do is recast in the most negative light possible, because those people have already decided what they think of the company in advance.

 

[resistor]

Changing plans is nowhere near deceptive marketing. Microsoft planned to put Windows Vista out in 2007, but had to change their plans because of circumstances, and claiming such things as deception are just silly.

I don't think anyone is claiming it's deceptive marketing (or at least I'm not), but it's a terrible way to generate good PR.

It's funny that you chose Windows Vista, actually, because in my industry it is regarded as one of the largest PR disasters in recent memory, largely because of those early feature announcements and release timeframes that were then not followed through on. (If you're seen my employer's ads, they like to make fun of it sometimes.)

I don't claim that the "taking everything as a promise" attitude is justified or correct. But it happens. It's a fact of business, just as changing plans are. That is why it is very important to have a good marketing/PR department to make the call of when it is time to announce something.

Too early and you risk incurring "broken promise" syndrome when something changes, too late and you risk not generating any hype.

What does that have to do with the post you quoted, which was addressing the false claim that D&D Insider is not a separate product from the D&D 4e core books (which is a completely ridiculous claim)?

I think you're taking his claim more literally than it was intended. Let me propose an analogy:

Suppose I own a PlayStation 2. I have LOTS of games, many of which I still haven't played. When the PlayStation 3 comes out, I'm somewhat indifferent, because I still have tons of games left to play on my existing system.

Then I hear that Sony is making SuperAwesomeAdventure XIV for the PlayStation 3. SuperAwesomeAdventure XIII was my favorite game ever, so I'm incredibly excited for SAAXIV, so I go out and buy a PS3.

And then SAAXIV is cancelled. Is my PS3 now worthless? Well, no, but I wouldn't have bought it if it weren't for SAAXIV. So, in some sense, I've been mislead into buying it.

----------

D&DI is a companion product. It's meant to encourage people to buy the 4e books. And it appears to have had that effect in at least a few cases: people have bought the books because they want to be able to use the D&DI. And then when it's not available (or massively delayed), they feel misled because they wouldn't have bought them otherwise.

-----------

My meta-point in all of this is that it doesn't really matter if the people who feel that promises were broken or who feel misled are right or not. They still feel that way, whether or not it's justified. A wise PR strategy accounts for an tries to minimize the opportunity for those kinds of perceptions to occur.

This is the root of the "The customer is always right" mantra. It doesn't matter if they're objectively wrong, making them happy (and thus more likely to continue buying) is more important in the end.

 

[The Little Raven]

I don't think anyone is claiming it's deceptive marketing (or at least I'm not), but it's a terrible way to generate good PR.

I directly quoted SavageRobby claiming that it was deceptive marketing. It might not be ideal to change plans after announcements or previews, but it's a far cry from deception.

I think you're taking his claim more literally than it was intended.

I'm pretty Tewligan meant it literally, which is why he responded a second time claiming, directly, that D&D Insider is not a separate product from the D&D core books, but an actual feature of those books (despite all evidence to the contrary).

And then SAAXIV is cancelled. Is my PS3 now worthless?

I don't think this is a good analogy, as without the accessory (games) the core product (PS3) is worthless, because it has no built-in entertainment. The D&D core books (core product) are perfectly usable without the D&D Insider (accessory), because they have the built-in entertainment in the form of the D&D game. A better analogy would be Gran Turismo and the wheel accessory. You can play GT without any problems if you don't have the wheel, but having it adds a whole new layer to the game.

Or an even better analogy would be one that has applied to D&D for decades: Dragon Magazine. It's nowhere near a requirement to play, but is useful to have.

D&DI is a companion product.

Indeed. It is not, as claimed, a feature of the D&D core books.

 

[Tewligan]

I'm pretty Tewligan meant it literally, which is why he responded a second time claiming, directly, that D&D Insider is not a separate product from the D&D core books, but an actual feature of those books (despite all evidence to the contrary).

Dear god. I don't know why I bother, but:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ3J8t2-RVs&feature=related[/ame]
This is the announcement of 4e at Gencon '07. At one point, they're discussing the 4 parts of 4th edition. That's the phrase used on their presentation. Not "Stuff that's separate from 4th edition". Can you guess what the 4th part is? If not, go ahead and skip to about 6:40 of the presentation.

 

[The Little Raven]

At one point, they're discussing the 4 parts of 4th edition.

That's their brand strategy. Notice how the "physical products" (aka the core books) are entirely separate from D&D Insider. Even in that presentation they clearly delineate that D&D Insider is entirely separate, which means it is not a feature of the core books, as you claimed.

Can you simply not comprehend that an entirely separate service with an entirely separate cost is an entirely separate product? Or are you now going to say that RPGA and the gaming community are features of the 4th Edition core books, since they were also listed as part of that same 4-column brand strategy?

 

[evileeyore]

I don't think this is a good analogy, as without the accessory (games) the core product (PS3) is worthless, because it has no built-in entertainment. The D&D core books (core product) are perfectly usable without the D&D Insider (accessory), because they have the built-in entertainment in the form of the D&D game.

Your still missing T's point. I'll sum it up and relate my view as well:

DDI was the selling point of 4e for my group. Can you guess why DDI might have been the selling point?

Without DDI my group had to search for a different platform to play 4e on. We found one. It already supports 3.x...

Guess what game we're playing instead of 4e?


Now, I won't claim WotC lied, however as I refuse to believe a word in any press release or that is spoken by an employee of WotC that isn't verifiable seperate from WotC, do I need to?