WotC Replies: Statements by WotC employees regarding Dragon/Dungeon going online

[Piratecat]

What game board designers have gotten a boost out of Dragon in the past 15 years?

Cheap Ass Games -- and quite possibly FFG, although I'm less certain of that.

 

[WayneLigon]

B) Eberron itself changed dramatically from initial conception to Keith's "setting bible" to its final form. These other settings would doubtless do the same.

I would be utterly fascinated to hear about the changes that were made and the initial concepts; I've always wondered how much change one typically sees from initial submissions to final product.

 

[Storm Raven]

Well, yes, they won't be publishing in Dragon. But, why wouldn't they be publishing in DI?

Because almost no one in the publishing industry takes web writing credentials particularly seriously. The question is not "can a writer get stuff on the DI", the question is, "will anyone regard that as a significant writing credential subsequently". Unless the print industry undergoes a massive personality change, the answer will be "not really".

There are other means of getting the message to gamers. There are many, many gamers who never see Dragon, but hang out on the WOTC boards. I think you are underestimating the impact of the web here. There are 50 000 members at ENworld. Do you not think that the WOTC site has similar numbers? That would mean that more people see the WOTC boards than see Dragon right off the bat, assuming that every member actually looks at the boards.

Yes, there are. And like I said those gamers have already been reached via the WotC website, and their numbers likely do not overlap entirely with subscribers of the print magazines. In other words, the people who go to WotCs website are not all the same people who read Dragon. So the net marketing reach is reduced as a result of cancelling the magazines.

More salient, by making the DI a subscription service, WotC runs the risk of having a lot of people who now visit their website stop coming because now they have to pay. Many people will cruise a website if it is free, but stop spending time there if they are expected to pay to get access.

 

[Maggan]

Cheap Ass Games -- and quite possibly FFG, although I'm less certain of that.

From advertising or from having games included in the mag?

/M

 

[Piratecat]

The former. This was a drive-by-posting as I was scanning for problems -- so sorry if I misinterpreted the question!

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

Because almost no one in the publishing industry takes web writing credentials particularly seriously. The question is not "can a writer get stuff on the DI", the question is, "will anyone regard that as a significant writing credential subsequently". Unless the print industry undergoes a massive personality change, the answer will be "not really".

If there were a rolleyes smiley, it would be rolling at you even as we speak.

How seriously do people in the publishing industry - the real one, not the tabletop RPG industry, which is entirely different beast - take RPG credits of any kind? Not very, in my experience. "Better than nothing, nothing much" seems to be the rule.

By contrast, do you (seriously ) mean to suggest that within the tabletop RPG industry, which is completely dominated and driven by Wizards of the Coast, which puts out a large majority of its new releases (though not a majority of its sales or profits) via .pdf and print on demand, which is comprised primarily of bootstrap operations paying well below the US minimum wage, which is and has always been comprised of TSR/Wizards of the Coast on one hand and hobbyists on the other - will not take publication on Wizards' own web site seriously?

 

[Storm Raven]

By contrast, do you (seriously ) mean to suggest that within the tabletop RPG industry, which is completely dominated and driven by Wizards of the Coast, which puts out a large majority of its new releases (though not a majority of its sales or profits) via .pdf and print on demand, which is comprised primarily of bootstrap operations paying well below the US minimum wage, which is and has always been comprised of TSR/Wizards of the Coast on one hand and hobbyists on the other - will not take publication on Wizards' own web site seriously?

How seriously do they take writing credits from WotC's website right now? (If you said "not very", then I think you have found the right ballpark to be in). No one ever gives advice to new writers saying "get published in Dragon or on WotC's website". They have (until now) always said 'try to get publsihed in Dragon or Dungeon".

Why do you think this will be different and the website will have all sorts of credibility now?

 

[I'm A Banana]

Because almost no one in the publishing industry takes web writing credentials particularly seriously.

While historically accurate, I'm of the belief that this will dramatically change within the next few years if it hasn't already. Print is no more inherently prestigious than the internet, and the internet, with DIY content, will be the place where many of the next generation of writers (for games as well as for media or even fiction) are published first.

If you can write a product people want to pay money for, whether it's pdf or not doesn't say anything about your ability to write it.

So, yes, I think a Web 2.0 style site where people can post their house rules and get them rated by other users certainly would allow someone a toehold within the industry, in even a more democratic fashion than Dungeon or Dragon could ever hope for. If I place consistently good material up there for free, and people leave comments to the effect of "WOW! Wizards should be publishing this!", WotC would be pretty foolish to ignore it just because of some web stigmata.

 

[Storm Raven]

While historically accurate, I'm of the belief that this will dramatically change within the next few years if it hasn't already. Print is no more inherently prestigious than the internet, and the internet, with DIY content, will be the place where many of the next generation of writers (for games as well as for media or even fiction) are published first.

While you may be right - since it is of course impossible to accurately predict the future, I think that you are wildly optimistic. There have been statements for years that web publishing will become big, that webzines will stand shoulder to shoulder equally with print magazines, and web publications will be accorded plenty of respect.

And, to date, it hasn't even come close. Because the web doesn't reach a large portion of the reading market as a significant means of transmitting material, and likely won't in our lifetimes. Sure, some writers have published books via the internet, usually to much ballyhoo, but the ones that people care about have already been successful print authors who are more or less "slumming" to see if the new medium will give them more publicity. Stephen King can get away with it because he has a track record of a hundred print titles behind him. Bob, the new guy, probably doesn't get much benefit out of web publishing. And in most cases, the material that has been published via the web has been intended to try to boost sales of the 'real" product - printed books.

If you can write a product people want to pay money for, whether it's pdf or not doesn't say anything about your ability to write it.

In a coldly objective world, probably not. In reality, many potential customers and future publishers will assume it does. "Couldn't print a real book, huh? You must not be a real writer."

So, yes, I think a Web 2.0 style site where people can post their house rules and get them rated by other users certainly would allow someone a toehold within the industry, in even a more democratic fashion than Dungeon or Dragon could ever hope for.

Like the House Rules forum on this site has? Now, don't get me wrong, the House Rules forum on this site is a great resource. But I don't see anyone citing stuff they put there as a writing credit. And I really don't see anyone taking them seriously if they did. I also don't see this changing - the ability to publish via the web is not really new, and attitudes concerning web-published material do not appear to have changed appreciably since it was introduced.

 

[Maggan]

In a coldly objective world, probably not. In reality, many potential customers and future publishers will assume it does. "Couldn't print a real book, huh? You must not be a real writer."

I think such a publisher would be very foolish. A persons writing skills are not measured by where he has his name printed, but upon the skills he has.

I think that in general, what you are describing could be the reaction of people not in the process of hiring a writer, but more of general reaction from other people.

On the other hand, it is a stamp of professionalism to have been published in print, and it might break the ice at initial contacts with publishers. But I maintain that any publisher who decides who to work with based the difference between "print" or "online" credits is foolish.

Even in print is easy for someone to get a writing credit, if you have the right clout or the right friends. I've had people in management tag along on texts I've written, for example.

So just because someone says they're a writer and they've been published in print here and there, no publisher worth his salt would take that as evidence of anything without checking the writing skills by requesting a sample.

But, there are differences of course. Just as it is more impressive to have been published by WotC than having cranked out your own photocopied fanzine, so it is more impressive to have been published by an established publisher online (such as NY Times, or WotC or what have you), than just cranking out your own blog.

Your self-published work online would become a strength to you only after keeping up with it for a couple of years or so. So in that respect you are correct. No one is going to be impressed if you whip up a mail saying "I wrote this on my blog". They might give you a second look if you said "I write online for WotC".

I find that the thing that makes for the best stamp of approval is to say "people pay me to write stuff". Then a publisher will take a bit more notice, because if someone is paying someone to do something, then there's probably quality in there, somewhere.

/M