WotC says "Return of the Red Box"

[TalonComics]

I don't agree that creating a new "red box" is a good idea. If WotC wants to promote D&D to potential new players then PROMOTE D&D TO NEW PLAYERS!

Many companies have players who demo RPGs or games for them across the country. WizKids, AEG and Kenzer to name just a few. Where is the "new player demo" for customers interested in D&D?

RPGA can promote it a little bit but frankly there just needs to be a FREE packet put together and sent to retailers or players who want to promote D&D the RPG. Making a cheap box set with cheap dice and a couple of saddle stapled books, in my opinion, is *not* going to make anyone more interested in playing D&D than a 29.95 PHB does.

Throwing more product out will not bring in more gamers!

~Derek

 

[rounser]

So long as it's an intro to D&D the RPG, not to D&D the miniatures game. If it's the latter, I think it'll be no improvement on the Adventure Game in terms of getting people into the RPG.

 

[William Ronald]

Talon, you do have a point in that WotC needs to promote D&D a bit more. However, there is a question as to how much support they can give and how effective it will be.

A friend who owns a shop in Chicago, Game Kingdom, does host local games as well as card tournaments. I believe these help, but these might not mean much to someone who is just casually interested in gaming. Also, will such large chains as Borders, Waldenbooks, and Barnes and Noble be likely to want people from WotC running demos? I do respect your opinion as always Talon, but I think it might be a question of resources for WotC.

Can someone from WotC talk about what marketing research lead to the Return of the Red Box? How can retailers such as TalonComics and national chains help promote D&D and RPGs in general>?

Good discussion, everyone.

 

[TalonComics]

I'm also basing some of my opinion on the intro box set that was released the same time as the D&D PHB 3E. It was only 9.95 and offered a very small glimpse into the world of D&D but essentially was made to introduce new players.

Heck, some versions of the box were friggin' huge! It was like those oversized software boxes advertising a new computer or console game.

Anyway, I just don't see the point of releasing a watered down intro system or yet another intro box set when all WotC should be doing is promoting D&D. As for what I think they should do: If WotC has the funds to send me monthly packets full of full color ad slicks for yet another CCG expansion then they should have the funds to put together a small intro package that organizes a "How to Introduce D&D to New Players" in 60 pages or less.

The intro package could have pre-genned characters, a small scenario and maybe even a "And if you like this, here are some other things you can look forward to.." text blurb that just describes things that could happen in-game. Heck, I even have ideas for getting women interested in role-playing instead of just catering to the typical gamer.

I swear when I was a kid there was something like this set up by TSR and that I actually played it and was majorly motivated to play more AD&D. Anyone else remember something like that back in the late 70s and early 80s?

I'll say it again: The solution to getting more people to play is not throw more product at them but to promote the game to different audiences and in different ways. This, for the bean counters, will make WotC more money in the long run.

~Derek

 

[Dismas]

Many companies have players who demo RPGs or games for them across the country. WizKids, AEG and Kenzer to name just a few. Where is the "new player demo" for customers interested in D&D?

In the UK there was a 'Golden Age' of the RPGA back in the mid-late 90's. We had demo groups that would go to shops and run demo games for various settings, even did some Dragon Dice and Spellfure demos.

There were a few shops that had regular gaming groups, we used to put up a notice asking what games they would like to try out and then grab an old tournament scenario and run it for them.

These day the RPGA seems to focus on living campaigns.

 

[Melan]

Talon: wasn't the original Basic line the one that actually sold better than AD&D 1st edition?

 

[Duncan Haldane]

I think "Return of the Red Box" will be a mega-adventure.

Like "return to the keep on the borderland", and "return to the temple of elemental evil", "return of the red box" will have the PCs once again face the machinations of the evil Red Box, General Crayon, and their Dice Legions.



Duncan

 

[JeffB]

But the problem w/ prmoting the core 3.5 rules or whatever is still the matter of complexity.

Fact is while the mechanics are simple D&D 3E/3.5 is NOT an easy game to learn..especially for a newbie DM. It's extremely intimdating w/ all the modifiers, skills,feats, rules exceptions, ex/sup/sp abilities, all the various "conditions", etc.

On the other hand, the original Basic set made me WANT to be a DM, not SCARED to be one which I'm sure is how many newbie DM's in thier early teens would feel grabbing the 3 current books.

The reason the adventure game release for 3.0 didn't do well was because it didn't nearly have the same amount of usefullness as the BD&D line. It had an extremely watered down version of the rules (and things like initiative weren't even rolled for, everyones initiative was always the same), you couldn't create characters, and had a booklet of rather unispired adventures. It was sorely lacking and incomplete. Quite simple to learn and play, but when the time comes for someone to step up to the full rule-set it's like getting hit w/ a Mack truck because the AG was TOO "dumbed down"

If you look at the majority of current 3.X players (based on previous polls) on this site (and I suspect in that regard ENWorld is a fairly representative sampling), we started out w/ the various versions of the basic set. It's those sets that KEPT & INCREASED our interest over the years. I can honestly say had I been give the D&D adventure game and my first adventure was Save the Unicorn from the Goblins (BARF), instead of something like oh say..In Search of the Unknown, Keep on the Borderlands, Palace of the Silver Princess, or trying to track down Bargle, I suspect many of us would not be here @ this site.


D&D needs another Basic set..preferrably the light blue (77) or pink box (81) in style, not the red one (83)

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I'm looking forward to this. I think there's room for a product that will appeal to a slightly different/younger audience that has all the elements needed to play in one package, without the $30+ price tag of the core books or the significantly greater investment in time. Picking up D&D canbe pretty intimidating for a newcomer, given that the core rules are almost 1000 pages of info. Sure, no one needs to know all that -- but a newcomer likely doesn't know that, either.

I'm guessing this product (isn't it the "D&D First Challenge" product?) will be something like the D&D Adventure Game for 3E, but probably with the pre-painted minis instead of counters. For the price, I thought the D&DAG was a pretty good effort.

I do agree with Talon, though, that D&D as a whole could use some more promotion. With the updated Core Rulebooks, minis game, the new Dragonlance CS (readers of DL novels are a much larger market than DL RPGers), and two new D&D computer games due out this fall (another huge market), it seems like this would be a great time to push the advertising and pick up more crossover customers. But with the boardgame and the intro set, maybe we're about so see that ...

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

On the other hand, the original Basic set made me WANT to be a DM, not SCARED to be one which I'm sure is how many newbie DM's in thier early teens would feel grabbing the 3 current books.

<snip>

D&D needs another Basic set..preferrably the light blue (77) or pink box (81) in style, not the red one (83)

I share fond memories of my pink box (which is still near at hand as I type this).

At the age of 9, I was pretty intimidated by the complexity of that rulebook -- it took a lot of readings before I really understood what was going on (I didn't get introduced to the game by others; I was "self-taught"). The "example of combat" and "example of play" helped me quite a bit.

We've certainly gotten better at explaining the rules since then (I do think the '83 set has that advantage with the solo adventure as an introduction), but the sheer volume is certainly intimidating.