William Ronald
Explorer
The Red Box refers to a somewhat simplified version of D&D that was produced in the 1970s and 1980s. It was often meant as an introduction to the game, but received support as an ongoing line from TSR for several years.
WotC says "Return of the Red Box"
- Thread starter dreamthief
- Start date
Wal Mart is actually selling the 3.5 core books for a hefty discount. Bad for game stores, but good for those of us on a budget, about ten bucks off i think.
Red Box was what got me hooked, it cost me twelve bucks. I played with just that for about a year. And that included dice! Twelve bucks versus 100 dollars? This is a huge barrier to entrance for new players.
Red Box was what got me hooked, it cost me twelve bucks. I played with just that for about a year. And that included dice! Twelve bucks versus 100 dollars? This is a huge barrier to entrance for new players.
MaxKaladin
First Post
I hope they do this.
I was wishing they would to this just last week. You see, I have a nephew who has shown an interest in gaming. I was wishing there was something like the old red box set that hooked me to give him.
I know a lot of you are talking about demo groups, local game store events and existing groups as introduction methods. The thing is, not everyone comes from a city or has lots of money to spend on games. When you get right down to it, game stores aren't that common. They're only a reasonable option for kids who live in cities and near the game store (or public transportation that gets them there) but not kids who live in small towns. Also, a $30 or $40 game is a lot more feasable for a kid to invest in than the three core books and dice that a group would need to own to get started.
When I started, I was only aware of the game and the red boxed set because a friend got one as a birthday present and I had to talk my stepmom into driving me 25 miles to the next town where there was a bookstore with game books so I could buy a copy. That red box is what really hooked me.
Like many of us with younger relatives, I want to introduce my nephew to the game. I think a new version of the old red box set would be an ideal tool. I think relying on game stores or demo teams is a mistake. They don't cover enough territory. There needs to be an inexpensive, self-contained D&D "starter" kit. It has to be something that kids anywhere can get their hands on and isn't tied to having a game store or existing game group around. It needs to be a single item that's inexpensive enough for parents and relatives to buy and give as gifts (I think plenty of us got our starting set as a gift).
I think that's the key. Don't make people who might give the game as a gift have to spend 100 bucks or have to know which books and dice to buy. Just present them with something inexpensive they can give a kid without worrying if its complete. Make it self contained so even kids in small towns without an established gaming community can get one and start playing with their friends. Do that, and I think you'll have a lot of new gamers.
Now, part of this is to follow the format of the 83 set in some ways. Give examples of play and sample dungeons. Give the very basics of a setting, just a village and a dungeon like the little bits of threshold and the dungeon in the 83 set, though this time around it would probably be Greyhawk. Make everything open ended enough that you can play with just the set and your imagination. (I knew one guy back in the 80s who played for years using just the red 83 set he got as a gift because that's all he had and never got access to any other game books.) Don't talk down to the reader as several have said.
One thing you need to change from the old 83 set is to make the rules a subset of the current D&D rules. The old 83 set was different from AD&D. Elf was a class, not just a race, for instance and other things were different. People with the new set should be able to go up a few levels and then transition their characters to regular D&D without them being incompatible. There should be no follow on products*. Instead of an "expert set" and so on, encorage people to buy the regular rules and go from there so you don't split the product into two lines.
* Actually, since the rules should be d20 compatible, people could, in theory, buy low level d20 modules and play them with little or no problem thus driving regular d20 sales.
I was wishing they would to this just last week. You see, I have a nephew who has shown an interest in gaming. I was wishing there was something like the old red box set that hooked me to give him.
I know a lot of you are talking about demo groups, local game store events and existing groups as introduction methods. The thing is, not everyone comes from a city or has lots of money to spend on games. When you get right down to it, game stores aren't that common. They're only a reasonable option for kids who live in cities and near the game store (or public transportation that gets them there) but not kids who live in small towns. Also, a $30 or $40 game is a lot more feasable for a kid to invest in than the three core books and dice that a group would need to own to get started.
When I started, I was only aware of the game and the red boxed set because a friend got one as a birthday present and I had to talk my stepmom into driving me 25 miles to the next town where there was a bookstore with game books so I could buy a copy. That red box is what really hooked me.
Like many of us with younger relatives, I want to introduce my nephew to the game. I think a new version of the old red box set would be an ideal tool. I think relying on game stores or demo teams is a mistake. They don't cover enough territory. There needs to be an inexpensive, self-contained D&D "starter" kit. It has to be something that kids anywhere can get their hands on and isn't tied to having a game store or existing game group around. It needs to be a single item that's inexpensive enough for parents and relatives to buy and give as gifts (I think plenty of us got our starting set as a gift).
I think that's the key. Don't make people who might give the game as a gift have to spend 100 bucks or have to know which books and dice to buy. Just present them with something inexpensive they can give a kid without worrying if its complete. Make it self contained so even kids in small towns without an established gaming community can get one and start playing with their friends. Do that, and I think you'll have a lot of new gamers.
Now, part of this is to follow the format of the 83 set in some ways. Give examples of play and sample dungeons. Give the very basics of a setting, just a village and a dungeon like the little bits of threshold and the dungeon in the 83 set, though this time around it would probably be Greyhawk. Make everything open ended enough that you can play with just the set and your imagination. (I knew one guy back in the 80s who played for years using just the red 83 set he got as a gift because that's all he had and never got access to any other game books.) Don't talk down to the reader as several have said.
One thing you need to change from the old 83 set is to make the rules a subset of the current D&D rules. The old 83 set was different from AD&D. Elf was a class, not just a race, for instance and other things were different. People with the new set should be able to go up a few levels and then transition their characters to regular D&D without them being incompatible. There should be no follow on products*. Instead of an "expert set" and so on, encorage people to buy the regular rules and go from there so you don't split the product into two lines.
* Actually, since the rules should be d20 compatible, people could, in theory, buy low level d20 modules and play them with little or no problem thus driving regular d20 sales.
I strongly hope that this set contains rules for character advancement all the way up to level 20. After all, the Moldvay books covered advancement up to level 14 in just 128 pages. If this set can't even achieve what Moldvay did... Well, it's just sad that RPG design can't even equal what was done almost 25 years ago.
I agree that there should not be supplemental books, adventures, etc. The boxed set should include a paragraph that says something like, "You want to expand your game? You want more classes, more races, more spells, more magic items, more monsters? In short, more of everything? Combat options, magical schools, etc... Then check out the PH, DMG, and MM."
I can think of one thing that would be cool and would drive the sales of WOTC's prepainted minis:
The boxed set is going to include some of the new minis. What would be cool is if, whenever WOTC released minis of monsters not in the boxed set, they included a "monster card" that gave basic stats for the monster. That would maximize the "toy value" of the game. It already has a high toy value, what with minis, battlemat, and dice included in the $20 set. I can imagine all kinds of people buying the boxed game and never buying anything else except for additional miniatures. That wouldn't "split the market" since no special products would be made. A cheap cardboard card (containing monster info) would be included in miniature packs that were going to be produced anyway. That's it.
I agree that there should not be supplemental books, adventures, etc. The boxed set should include a paragraph that says something like, "You want to expand your game? You want more classes, more races, more spells, more magic items, more monsters? In short, more of everything? Combat options, magical schools, etc... Then check out the PH, DMG, and MM."
I can think of one thing that would be cool and would drive the sales of WOTC's prepainted minis:
The boxed set is going to include some of the new minis. What would be cool is if, whenever WOTC released minis of monsters not in the boxed set, they included a "monster card" that gave basic stats for the monster. That would maximize the "toy value" of the game. It already has a high toy value, what with minis, battlemat, and dice included in the $20 set. I can imagine all kinds of people buying the boxed game and never buying anything else except for additional miniatures. That wouldn't "split the market" since no special products would be made. A cheap cardboard card (containing monster info) would be included in miniature packs that were going to be produced anyway. That's it.
teitan
Legend
Hmmm, I shall use my psychic abilities to perceive what this Return of the Red Box will mean...
(for entertainment purposes only and pure speculation)
I perceive a box, about the size of the old Red Box with four books, a set of minis, dice and cardboard monsters.
In the books I see a Player's Guide detailing the basics of combat, classes and races with a small equipment list and the first three levels for each class... Next I see a DMG with a simple XP system, some magic items and a selection of monsters... Next I see a reprint of the D&D Gazeteer with a fold out map and a new cover and some spiffy artwork... LASTLY I SEE KEEP ON THE BORDERLANDS converted to 3.5E.
Then again, that would be too cool and won't happen
Jason
(for entertainment purposes only and pure speculation)
I perceive a box, about the size of the old Red Box with four books, a set of minis, dice and cardboard monsters.
In the books I see a Player's Guide detailing the basics of combat, classes and races with a small equipment list and the first three levels for each class... Next I see a DMG with a simple XP system, some magic items and a selection of monsters... Next I see a reprint of the D&D Gazeteer with a fold out map and a new cover and some spiffy artwork... LASTLY I SEE KEEP ON THE BORDERLANDS converted to 3.5E.
Then again, that would be too cool and won't happen
Jason
Keith Strohm
First Post
From the feedback and information we received, the 3E Adventure Game box was a success, selling very nicely in mass channels. The Adventure Game was specifically built with new players in mind. The R&D staff used focus groups and market research (actually observing a number of groups of new players as they tried to learn the game right out of the box. They then reworked the design based on feedback from those groups).
The difficult thing about talking about the type of intro box that we would find cool is that we are no longer "uninitiated," our viewpoint is skewed to that of a player. There are aspects of the boxed set that we might think would be be cool (we might even be certain) to include, but one of the things we found when we designed the 3E Adventure Game is that the assumptions and viewpoint of the experienced player were often inadequate or incorrect when "applied" to a new player. If a group of experienced players finds the intro box too simplistic or not to their liking, I might be tempted to take that as a sign that the design of the intro box was probably closer to accomplishing its objectives, rather than it being a sign of poor design.
I hope that WOTC has the design time to utilize market reseearch and focus groups again when making the new ADventure Game. I also think that including pre-painted plastic minis is an advantage. It just wasn't cost-effective for us to do that the first time because of the price of tooling and the manufacturing lead time. Now that WOTC has it's own line of plastic minis, I think it should be very do-able.
Keith Strohm
Game Industry Lay-About
The difficult thing about talking about the type of intro box that we would find cool is that we are no longer "uninitiated," our viewpoint is skewed to that of a player. There are aspects of the boxed set that we might think would be be cool (we might even be certain) to include, but one of the things we found when we designed the 3E Adventure Game is that the assumptions and viewpoint of the experienced player were often inadequate or incorrect when "applied" to a new player. If a group of experienced players finds the intro box too simplistic or not to their liking, I might be tempted to take that as a sign that the design of the intro box was probably closer to accomplishing its objectives, rather than it being a sign of poor design.
I hope that WOTC has the design time to utilize market reseearch and focus groups again when making the new ADventure Game. I also think that including pre-painted plastic minis is an advantage. It just wasn't cost-effective for us to do that the first time because of the price of tooling and the manufacturing lead time. Now that WOTC has it's own line of plastic minis, I think it should be very do-able.
Keith Strohm
Game Industry Lay-About
