WotC Seeks Unity with a New Edition

[Morrus]

S
- 4e failure
<acronym title="Wizards of the Coast">"WotC</acronym> has acknowledged publicly that they made mistakes in the buildup to <acronym title="D&D 4th Edition">4E</acronym>, and has learned important lessons from that period."
I really like 4e.

The mistakes referred to there are specifically marketing mistakes. I don't think anyone could argue that they didn't drop the ball there - the edition wars are a testament to that.

It wasn't said as a commentary on the game itself.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

My statement about the game being broken is more a commentary on the environment in which 4e currently lives (play & business). The audience is fractured among a few D&D systems, the GSL did not accomplish what it was supposed to do (create broad 3pp support for the system), the designs has evolved over time (class changes, monsters etc), Essentials was/is confusing to new(er) players and veterans. If 4e was healthy we would not be talking about 5e right now.

And for the record, I am not bitter AT ALL. I enjoyed my time at WotC, I am proud of what I accomplished there, I still have a ton of friends that work on D&D and I hope 5e is a smashing success. To add to that, I am a pretty big 4e fanboi. It is my favorite D&D rules system and I wish I had more time to play in a campaign.

Fair enough, and thanks for clearing that up. I thought you were speaking technically/mechanically. My mistake, sir.

 

[jaerdaph]

I'm genuinely curious. Have you seen the Pathfinder Beginner Box? If you have, how good a job of doing this did they do? I certainly believe that their intent was to pretty much do exactly what you propose above (well, not the technology so much as it was still a printed product)

I think 4e D&D Essentials did an okay job and Paizo's Pathfinder Beginner Box was a little better for entry level fantasy roleplaying game products in a box. Unfortunately for both companies, it isn't 1980 anymore. If either of them want to get younger people invested in the game, not only do they need to offer something where you can be up and running in minutes, they need to make it available as something that can be played on smart phones and tablets for these kids to want to play. It needs to be similar to how Playstation/Wii videogames work now - the kids need to be able to play with their friends in the same room, play with their friends over the Internet, and play with other users from around the world over the Internet as well.

So what do I see happening? It looks like Hasbro/WotC, despite today's press release marketing rhetoric, is about to make the same mistake that a lot of big corporations in a lot of different industries are making (and like WotC did last edition change too) - going after segments that weren't buying but dropping a large portion of existing customer that were buying to do it (and not necessarily intentionally).

Paizo on the other hand is developing an MMO...

 

[bhandelman]

Pathfinder sought out input from it's customers, and it's been increasing in popularity and stealing players from 4E since it's inception.

Has it been stealing players from 4e? Where I game, Pathfinder just replaced all the 3.5 games that were still being played, we have the same number of 4e games as we did before. Also, it seems almost everyone playing Pathfinder also plays 4e and vice versa, the only exception being certain DMs only run one type or the other, but even they still game in both. I think forums like ENWorld make the Edition Wars seem a lot more rabid than they are in real life.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

THIS EXACTLY.

I walked away from WOTC because they were selling a product that I had no interest in. Paizo makes a product that I'm more than interested in and have been supporting since 2007-8.

People who play 4E are still going to have support for their game. Who are they supposed to be unifying with?

but you walked away with your eyes still looking back... I know that becuse here you are, looking and commenting on a WotC announcment.
Maybe you are more the target then you think...

Imagin the following statement:

I walked away from Krystal because she was selling doing things I had no interest in. Kari I have found I'm more than interested in and have been seeing her since 2007.

would not it just seam like if you said that in responce to something krystal said...well it might point to some feelings still being there for krystal.


Pathfinder players who really don't care wont bat an eyelash... pathfinder players who may still long for a wotc D&D edtion for them on the other hand may come by and take a look.

 

[Walking Dad]

...

Paizo on the other hand is developing an MMO...

WotC did that, too.
And Paizo now sells miniatures (or at least the rights for them). As did WotC before.

BTW, WotC also tries this facebook game...

 

[talok55]

[
4e was broken as a game and business and it needs to go away.
Best quote by a former WotC employee ever!! I need to make this my sig.

 

[jaerdaph]

BTW, WotC also tries this facebook game...

Good, glad to hear it, because that's what they should be doing.

 

[bhandelman]

Its the model for all game publishers. Even Paizo will release a Pathfinder 2e at some point and they probably already have a confidential internal product road map for the next 2-3 years sketched out and Pathfinder 2e is on it.

They probably already have early drafts and ideas for it even if its too early to admit to it publicly yet.

The interesting thing to see will be how 5e affects their plans if at all, and if they have their own schism with their fans being upset at changes they introduce with their eventual new edition.

All good points. Even Warhammer FRP, which prided itself on 15 years with the same edition, eventually moved on and changed. You can have editions that are more compatible (think the Hero system or BRP, which are for the most part still compatible with their first editions 30 years ago), but the larger your userbase is the larger the split. I'm really curious as well, but I think Pathfinder should be careful and take their time, certainly at least until 5e is out and see how that affects them first. The younger you are, the less likely you are to survive a fracture like that I think, especially if 5e really does bring people back into the fold.

 

[DaveMage]

Beyond Gary Gygax & Bill Slavicesk who has been at the design helm of the game for more than 1 edition (8-10 years)?

The problem is that from 2002-2013 there will have been 5 editions.

3.0, 3.5, 4.0, 4.Essentials, 5E. That's a LOT of edition turnover in 11 years.