WotC setting search winner - Eberron

[woodelf]

Because velociraptor sounds way cooler than deinonychus, silly.

Speak for yourself. I'll take "Deinonychus" any day. Especially given their respective etymologies.

Coupla nitpicks -- Velociraptor was discovered in the 40s or 50s when the first Mongolian expeditions (mounted by Soviet scientists and Polish scientists) went out that way. They're also more like collie sized, not pony sized. Deinonychus was more wolf-sized. The larger ones, discovered just recently, are Utahraptor and Megaraptor. Also, all of the above are Maniraptoriformes, which is very clearly nestled in the Saurischian lineage of dinosaurs, i.e., the lizard-hipped. Although ironically, it's believed that actual birds evolved from relatives very close to the Velociraptor group, and the actual bird-hipped dinosaurs are an evolutionary dead-end.

Ok, this is me with egg on my face. I shoulda remembered that the bird-like (in stance) dinosaurs were lizard-hipped. I didn't bother to grab a book before my last post. On the discovery dates, i was going on childhood memories: Deinonychus was in every dino book i ever saw, but i'd never heard of Velociraptor before Jurassic Park. Somebody said it was the new, hot thing when Crichton wrote his book (and that's part of why he used them), and it didn't even occur to me to double-check--i'd never heard of them, so of *course* it was because they were a (relatively) new discovery. Interestingly, a cursory websearch puts the earliest Velociraptor skull at 1924, and the first Deinonychus find in the '60s.

However, where size is concerned, i stick to my guns. Checked a couple of books, as well as online, and they all concur: Deinonychus was significantly larger than Velociraptor. Maybe not quite "pony sized", but i couldn't think of a better comparison. I suppose "goat-sized" is pretty close, at least for size (probably rather lighter than a goat--what's a goat weigh?). I also overstated the size of Velociraptor.

From <http://www.mathematical.com/dinovelociraptor.html>:

Unfortunately, the producers of 'Jurassic Park' felt compelled to make the movie Velociraptor 400% larger than the fossil record would indicate. This perhaps sold 400% more videos. Velociraptor was probably the size of a Great Dane.

From <http://www.nationaldinosaurmuseum.com.au/dinoinfo/dinos/velociraptor.htm>:

Deinonychus antirrhopus
Time: late Early Cretaceous, 120 - 113 million years ago
Place: Western North America
Diet: Meat
Size: 3 metres long, 1.2 metres tall at the hips, 70 kilograms

Velociraptor mongoliensis
Time: late Late Cretaceous, ~?80 - ~?70 million years ago
Place: Mongolia, ?China
Diet: Meat
Size: 1.8 metres long, 0.5 metres tall at the hips, 10 -15 kilograms

As long as we're nitpicking: is the opening scene of Jurassic Park in the American SW (as i thought i remembered), where Deinonychus is found, or Mongolia (where Velociraptor is found)?

 

[KeithBaker]

So...is the stuff that was originally in there that didn't get used covered under your NDA? Or can you share that with us?

As I read it, WotC owns everything that is in the 125 page bible, and thus it is covered by the NDA. I do hope that I can post the original 1-pager once the setting has finally been released, though. And who knows, perhaps I'll be able to adapt some of the unused ideas for bonus material on my website. We'll see.

Anyhow, I have deadlines I must deal with, so this will be my last post for a while. I'll post again when more information is released!

-Keith

 

[blackshirt5]

a quick question Keith:

Do you ever get the urge to just kick people in the junk when they rip into what their idea of what your idea is...is?

Did that even make sense?

 

[Dr. Confoundo]

As I read it, WotC owns everything that is in the 125 page bible, and thus it is covered by the NDA. I do hope that I can post the original 1-pager once the setting has finally been released, though. And who knows, perhaps I'll be able to adapt some of the unused ideas for bonus material on my website. We'll see.

-Keith

I have a better idea regarding the 1-pager... include it in the book. Take a page to show the original ideas for your campaign world, and a couple paragraphs to describe your experiences with the contest and working with WotC. I'm sure a lot of people (especially those of us who entered the contest) would love to see that info.

Doc

 

[woodelf]

That setting does look awesome; what's the Savage Worlds system like, perchance?

Rather like D20, but looser. Not so much fiddly detail. IME, quicker for chargen, and looks to be quicker-playing (haven't actually played it).

 

[Desdichado]

Ok, this is me with egg on my face. I shoulda remembered that the bird-like (in stance) dinosaurs were lizard-hipped. I didn't bother to grab a book before my last post. On the discovery dates, i was going on childhood memories: Deinonychus was in every dino book i ever saw, but i'd never heard of Velociraptor before Jurassic Park. Somebody said it was the new, hot thing when Crichton wrote his book (and that's part of why he used them), and it didn't even occur to me to double-check--i'd never heard of them, so of *course* it was because they were a (relatively) new discovery. Interestingly, a cursory websearch puts the earliest Velociraptor skull at 1924, and the first Deinonychus find in the '60s.

Yeah, but we didn't really know anything about it until the Polish and Soviet expeditions, when whole skeletons were found. Also, the famous "fighting dinosaurs" find -- a 'raptor and a Protoceratops apparently killed by a sandstorm while fighting.

However, where size is concerned, i stick to my guns. Checked a couple of books, as well as online, and they all concur: Deinonychus was significantly larger than Velociraptor. Maybe not quite "pony sized", but i couldn't think of a better comparison. I suppose "goat-sized" is pretty close, at least for size (probably rather lighter than a goat--what's a goat weigh?). I also overstated the size of Velociraptor.

Sorry -- if I said otherwise, I mispoke. Deinonychus is very clearly larger than Velociraptor -- about the size of a wolf or leopard according to Greg Paul in Predatory Dinosaurs of the World (great book, by the way, although the relationships he proposes is an out of date scheme.)

As long as we're nitpicking: is the opening scene of Jurassic Park in the American SW (as i thought i remembered), where Deinonychus is found, or Mongolia (where Velociraptor is found)?

It's in Utah or Colorado or somewhat such place, although they clearly call it Velociraptor, and it's clearly bigger than either. The idea of a fully articulated skeleton just lying there like that is pretty amazing though -- those kinds of finds are super rare.

 

[woodelf]

Sorry -- if I said otherwise, I mispoke. Deinonychus is very clearly larger than Velociraptor -- about the size of a wolf or leopard according to Greg Paul in Predatory Dinosaurs of the World (great book, by the way, although the relationships he proposes is an out of date scheme.)

Interesting. The stuff i found online is a bit more ambiguous about sizes, but the book that i have immediately to hand (The Dinosaurs, William Stout, 1981--so a bit out of date) pegs Deinonychus as ~150#. That's a *big* wolf, and even on the heavy side for a leopard. Mind you, i'm not sure i trust my book on such specifics.

Really too small to ride, sadly--not that i'd let that stop me. They were large enough for riding for one of my homebrews, too. ;-)

 

[woodelf]

Come on, it was built to reflect the work of Leiber, Moorcock, Howard, Vance, Tolkien etc. It's got swords & sorcery classes, magic, races, monsters, tech levels and setting assumptions. D&D is like a bunch of standard pulp swords & sorcery fantasy ideas put in a blender and set to "liquify". Of course D&D is swords & sorcery fantasy. What else could it possibly be? It's not generic fantasy, that's for sure - it's way too straightjacketed for that.

You just gave examples of two genres--both of which are antecedents for D&D.

Swords & Sorcery: sorcery is evil, almost without exception. Monsters and non-humans are almost always bad guys--at best, they may be allies, but not the heroes themselves. The hero must use brawn and wit to defeat the above. The overall level of magic is middling. Even the "good guys" often have questionable morals, and ends often justify the means.

High Fantasy: the good guys have wizards/sorcerers, too, and usually have access to other sorts of weapons. Magic is not inherently evil. Non-human good-guys are common. The overall level of magic is high. The good guys are good (though they may be flawed), and the bad guys are bad.

So, D&D ends up a sometimes-awkward mix of sword & sorcery and high fantasy, leaning more towards the high fantasy, over all.

[n.b.: those are, of course, horrible simplifications, glossing over all sorts of things.]

 

[Leopold]

I'm sick of low magic settings, INCLUDING Forgotten Realms.

your sooooo joking right?!?!? Low magic FR?!?!?