D&D 5E (2024) WotC Should Make 5.5E Specific Setting

[Reynard]

So just by way of example, one mechanical thing that is new in 5.5 that I think would impact the way we write D&D settings differently than how we have done it so far, is the change in how species and background interact mechanically. previously, we did a lot of pastiche Tolkiening -- this race (or subrace) is like this and lives here and so on. 5.5 throws that out in a big way. Those themed locations (your Rivendels and whatever) would no longer be species based, but culturally based. that is a big deal in a setting design.

 

[Reynard]

Yes, but that was designed Setting first, and under the influence of alcohol in a bar to boot. The mechanics were built around the Heavy Metal album cover vibes.

You would be surprised by how much of RPG material was designed in a bar.

More to the point: so what? How does that refute the idea that Spelljammer is a deeply 2E designed setting?

 

[Charlaquin]

Nentir Vale is a vive, but I'm not sure how much of it is setting specific: Mercer was basically running it in Pathfinder for years.

It’s very setting specific. It’s pretty much one and the same as 4e’s implied Points of Light setting, which included a whole lot of cosmological changes, which were built directly into the mechanics. It also had highly specific histories for its species, especially Dragonborn, Tieflings, Gnolls, and Minotaurs. It can obviously be adapted for other systems, just as any setting can. But, it was inarguably informed by 4e’s mechanics. Again, nobody is arguing for a setting that would be unusable outside of 5e. Just one that is informed by 5e’s mechanics, and thereby serves as an actualization of 5e’s implied setting, analogous to how NV does for 4e or Eberron does for 3e.

 

[THEMNGMNT]

A new 5E setting should be...

...the 4E setting.

No, wait. Hear me out.

I'm not talking about the Nentir Vale, which (to me) has somewhat old school vibes. (The creator, Richard Baker, also authored Lost Mine of Phandelver, Red Hand of Doom, Reavers of Harkenwold. They've all got a similar feel that I would argue is NOT the fantasy superhero vibe of 4E.)

Instead, I'm talking about the broader 4E multiverse, as well as Nerath, of which Nentir Vale was just a small part.

Check out the map below. It's a greatest hits of D&D adventures, locations, themes, and monsters. Evocative...if not original. That "greatest hits" approach is one of the defining characteristics of 5E.

5E also has a maximalist approach to playable races, which would need to be a key part of any new world. Well, 4E had the same approach.

There's a lot of 4E lore that carried over to 5E. The Shadowfell, the Feywild, even the "First World" bears a lot of similarity to the implied cosmology of the Dawn War.

Finally, while 5E doesn't present as being a fantasy superheroes game like 4E...it kind of is. Especially in how it plays at the table. And that's even more true with 5.5E.

 

[Charlaquin]

I'm not talking about the Nentir Vale, which (to me) has somewhat old school vibes. (The creator, Richard Baker, also authored Lost Mine of Phandelver, Red Hand of Doom, Reavers of Harkenwold. They've all got a similar feel that I would argue is NOT the fantasy superhero vibe of 4E.)

Huh. I did not know that, but it makes a lot of sense. That explains why I’ve always gotten Nentir Vale vibes from LMoP. Evidently this dude’s style jibes with my preferences. Makes me think I should try running that Elemental Evil campaign he wrote for early 5e.

 

[Parmandur]

So just by way of example, one mechanical thing that is new in 5.5 that I think would impact the way we write D&D settings differently than how we have done it so far, is the change in how species and background interact mechanically. previously, we did a lot of pastiche Tolkiening -- this race (or subrace) is like this and lives here and so on. 5.5 throws that out in a big way. Those themed locations (your Rivendels and whatever) would no longer be species based, but culturally based. that is a big deal in a setting design.

I don't see how that does or does not follow from the mechanics. 2014 and 2024 rules are going to be neutral about thst sort of Setting detail.

 

[Parmandur]

You would be surprised by how much of RPG material was designed in a bar.

More to the point: so what? How does that refute the idea that Spelljammer is a deeply 2E designed setting?

What mechanics of 2E inspired any element of the Setting...? What I see in my second hand copy of Space Adventures is a bunch of bespoke mechanics meant to capture the fluff vibe.

 

[Parmandur]

Huh. I did not know that, but it makes a lot of sense. That explains why I’ve always gotten Nentir Vale vibes from LMoP. Evidently this dude’s style jibes with my preferences. Makes me think I should try running that Elemental Evil campaign he wrote for early 5e.

Princes of the Apocalypse is actually pretty good.

 

[THEMNGMNT]

Huh. I did not know that, but it makes a lot of sense. That explains why I’ve always gotten Nentir Vale vibes from LMoP. Evidently this dude’s style jibes with my preferences. Makes me think I should try running that Elemental Evil campaign he wrote for early 5e.

IIRC Nentir Vale was originally supposed to be placed in the Forgotten Realms, but that was changed at some point in 4E's development.

Regardless, Baker is really good at creating "medieval hamlets on the edge of the wilderness under threat from a growing darkness". Can't go wrong with that.

I'm strongly considering running both Reavers of Harkenwold and Red Hand of Doom in the not to distant future.

 

[Charlaquin]

I don't see how that does or does not follow from the mechanics. 2014 and 2024 rules are going to be neutral about thst sort of Setting detail.

I think you’re getting too hung up on the idea of the mechanics being central. I believe what @Reynard is trying to get at is that any game system inherently carries some setting implications with it. Species-based ability score modifiers are a great example of this; intentionally or not, such a mechanic does imply a certain biological determinism, making elves just inherently better-suited to magical pursuits than dwarves are. Post-2024 5e has completely shifted these bonuses to background, implying (intentionally or otherwise) a world where your upbringing has a lot more impact on what you will be suited to do later in life than your heritage does. A setting that is built with that implication in mind absolutely could be run in a game with species-based ability score modifiers. But, such a setting would be more ludonarratively harmonious with post-2024 5e than it would be with, like, AD&D 1e. And it would be pretty difficult to run with OD&D.