WOTC switch to watermarking, finally...

[Ghendar]

There's nothing strange about it.

Well then, maybe it's just me that's strange.

 

[sckeener]

It's easy to forget, but your average D&D customer probably still doesn't even know pdf products exist. This is a big deal in the broad picture because it will bring new customers to pdfs. Sure, some won't buy. But some will. And they'll all see the pdfs of other companies listed there at the store.

So while this probably isn't that big a deal for WotC, it's a big (long term) deal for pdfs.

Who knows? Maybe 4th edition will be released electronically and in print simultaneously.

(Agreed...)

PDFs right from the start would be wonderful.

What I'd also love to see is LGS having kiosks where the user can put in a usb memory stick, buy the pdf through the LGS, or even print it out (in a kinkos manner.)
(ok...pie in the sky dreaming...but it would be nice) One advantage would be getting LGSs to advertise PDFs.

I don't know how many times I've been browsing my LGS and said I need to remember to look and see if there is a PDF. I prefer PDFs...though I do enjoy your weighty tome PTOLUS in hardcover. I think it is the extras included in that book (the binding, the 3 purple ribbon bookmarks.) I do plan on getting Ptolus in PDF as I like to read PDFs during lunch at work.

I guess the problem I see in the PDF market is either you are looking for something in PDF format already or you hear about a product in pdf from a friend. Case in point is Dragon Magazines in PDF. I keep having to check back to find out if there are new Dragon/Dungeon Magazines in PDF. There is no Previews catalog, no LGS telling me about it, no displays, no merchants hawking their wares at me. Getting an email saying it was being released would be nice, but so many people have spam filters already to weed out such stuff I doubt many would receive it.
For many people if the LGS doesn't tell them about it, they won't even know it is coming.

 

[Treebore]

4 years ago I hated pdf's. Now I like them enough to own a 100 or so. However, companies like WOTC need to realize that they are the ones making pdf's lose to print. That is stupid. I still prefer print. So I'll buy print first. In fact the vast majority of pdf's I own are not in print, even though more are becoming available via outlets like lulu.com.

So what I am getting at is that most (I'll wager 95% or more) consumers are like me, they prefer print. So if WOTC wants to sell pdf's to people like me they need to make it financially pretty enough for me to buy both.

So if they make pdf's available at say 50% of retail (like Monte did with Ptolus), I will likely buy a few pdf versions, especially of monster manuals and books with lots of spells in them. If they were to make pdf's 30% of retail I'll be very likely to buy a pdf version of every book I own in print. PLUS, if they release pdf's ahead of their print versions I'll buy the pdf (assuming the 30% retail price) to see if I want the print version. Otherwise I'll wait and see what is said about it, and likely never buy them until/unless I find an awesome deal on eBay.


That would also be a way to battle the "eBay effect" and a portion of the "Amazon effect". If people are like me and buying pdf versions straight from them, it will offset revenue lost to eBay and maybe even Amazon. They will get at least the pdf sale from me (still assuming 30%) because I would rather pay that for a pdf of a book that may well be of very limited use to me, than wait to see if I can get it off of eBay. If I like the book a lot I'll then buy the print from Amazon. So WOTC gets the pdf money and their cut from an Amazon sale.

Right now, they occasionally get an Amazon sale from me, and lose their revenue from me to eBay sellers. Considering I have all but about 10 3E books (Eberron and the Environment books), they have lost a fair amount of revenue, especially when you consider I am far from a unique consumer.

So hopefully WOTC will start taking a real look at the pdf market and start realizing what it can do for them. Especially if they quit making pdf's compete with print.

 

[Michael Tree]

If you view the PDF channel as a bargain bin, that's fine. But don't fault WotC if they feel their current titles don't belong in the bargain bin!

WotC isn't selling "intellectual property", it's selling products, and different product media have different values. A hardcover book has a higher value than a trade paperback, and a trade paperback has a higher value than a mass market paperback. Should publishers stop publishing mass market paperbacks, or try to sell them for the same price as hardbacks, because they feel their titles don't belong in the "bargain bin?"

 

[Maggan]

A hardcover book has a higher value than a trade paperback, and a trade paperback has a higher value than a mass market paperback. Should publishers stop publishing mass market paperbacks, or try to sell them for the same price as hardbacks, because they feel their titles don't belong in the "bargain bin?"

WotC have indeed chosen not to sell a paperback PH or DMG, so as not to devalue the hard cover versions.

/M

 

[Mercule]

Who knows? Maybe 4th edition will be released electronically and in print simultaneously.

Do you really think PDFs will catch on that well by July?

 

[ShadowDenizen]

Mercule wrote:

I prefer my hardbounds, but I do see some advantage to PDFs. If I could get the PDF of any book I own for, say, $10 a pop, I'd probably do it.

Ditto here. Probably not for every book, but the ones that I plan on using consistently, it would be nice to have a copy and save wear and tear on my print version.

Treebore wrote:

So what I am getting at is that most (I'll wager 95% or more) consumers are like me, they prefer print. So if WOTC wants to sell pdf's to people like me they need to make it financially pretty enough for me to buy both.

Not sure about that 95% number, but I'm one of those that prefers print as well, though I do see some value to PDF's. And I agree with that second statement as well.

So if they make pdf's available at say 50% of retail (like Monte did with Ptolus), I will likely buy a few pdf versions, especially of monster manuals and books with lots of spells in them

Not sure if 50% would be enough of an enticement for me personally, unless it's something OOP and/or something I really want.

So hopefully WOTC will start taking a real look at the pdf market and start realizing what it can do for them. Especially if they quit making pdf's compete with print.

I agree; PDF could act as a really nice supplement for their lines, if priced and ditributed properly.

 

[Glyfair]

Ah, but once one accepts that customers aren't thieves, it's not a difficulty at all. Those who don't own the book simply add a different SKU to their Checkout Cart than those who do own the book.

While there is a point to quibble with the word "thieves" my experience says there is a significant number of people who go to great lengths to save money. If you make it as simple as just choosing the product that says you own the product, with no checking on that, many (and maybe most) will choose the option that just says they own it, even though they don't.

 

[Glyfair]

WotC have indeed chosen not to sell a paperback PH or DMG, so as not to devalue the hard cover versions.

That and if they released a paperback PHB or DMG then the retail chains would return all their hardback PHBs & DMGs for credit. That would be a huge loss for WotC.

 

[MerricB]

I think the problem, as dcas pointed out, is structural--the principal channels of distribution for hardcovers don't have the capacity to provide proof of purchase, or to pass the cost of coupons or similar mechanisms from PDFs back to the manufacturer. Given that the core hobby channel is mostly independent stores, even if a system could be devised, channel compliance would be a nightmare. These problems are surmountable, but only with levels of effort and expense that I'm sure dramatically outweigh the profit advantage.

If I may note...

Days of Wonder (a great board game publisher) has "webcodes" in each of its boardgames that provide (normally) 6 months free subscription to its online website. Upper Deck does a similar thing with its TCGs - normally for reward points.

Obviously, the implementation of such a system with a D&D book would require a tamper-proof seal - and that's not entirely welcome, especially if you want people to browse books first. However, it would allow the purchase of a pdf at a reduced rate.

I could also imagine that putting that code in if you have *already* purchased the book could either provide a rebate for the pdf, or a reduced cost on another Wizards pdf. Whether this is feasible is something for others to determine.

(BTW, Charles - did you get my e-mail about Ars Magica? I wasn't sure if it'd wandered into the horrors of being classified as spam or not).

Cheers!