D&D 5E WotC: Why Dark Sun Hasn't Been Revived

In an interview with YouTuber 'Bob the Worldbuilder', WotC's Kyle Brink explained why the classic Dark Sun setting has not yet seen light of day in the D&D 5E era.

I’ll be frank here, the Dark Sun setting is problematic in a lot of ways. And that’s the main reason we haven’t come back to it. We know it’s got a huge fan following and we have standards today that make it extraordinarily hard to be true to the source material and also meet our ethical and inclusion standards... We know there’s love out there for it and god we would love to make those people happy, and also we gotta be responsible.

You can listen to the clip here.

 

[Minigiant]

The harsh truth is

A Dark Sun book wouldn't make enough money for WOTC that would be worth the headache.

Some small 3PP of 5 people could make $200k profit and be very happy.
WOTC wont get out the bed for $200k net profit.

 

[Zardnaar]

Wouldn't it be better to homebrew a Dark Sun game if you want to change its backstory that much? That way, you're not bound by any legacy issues.

EDIT: Thinking on it more, why couldn't WotC simply build a 5e "like-Dark Sun" setting from the ground up? That isn't the old Dark Sun and doesn't have any connections or even a title that connects, so that it can build its own scary, dangerous, survival punk-style grim setting?

That way, no one has to see anything get sanded down on an old classic, and instead can enjoy a new setting.

Has WotC actually built any original D&D settings? I'm not talking about adapting someone else's work or adopting from MtG, but like actually built their own, for D&D, settings?

Eberron about it. Maybe 4E vale idk if that counts.

 

[briggart]

It was more an experiment gone awry. Athas originally had a blue sun, but they tried to harness it's power magically and warped it to yellow and allowed psionics to develop. Then at some point it warped to red and the defiling destroyed most life and water on the planet. It is the way it is due to a magical catastrophe and defiling magic, not climate change.

Experiment gone awry is a good description of the Blue Age - Green Age transition. There was the equivalent of a global "biotech" disaster, and in order to fix it the halfings harnessed the power of the sun, changing it from blue to yellow.

The decline of the Green age, however, happened over thousands of years due to defiling, the cleansing wars and the crusade against druids. Even before the Champions changed the sun from yellow to red to imprison Rajaat, Athas was turning to a deserted wasteland. The timeline describes major coastal cities being swallowed by the Sea of Silt hundreds of year before the Champions revolted.

There were clearly singular events that sped up the collapse, but the process developed over a very long time, so the parallels with anthropogenic climate change are clearly there, even though filtered through the lens of the general public understanding of the issue as of 40 years ago.

 

[humble minion]

A Dark Sun book wouldn't make enough money for WOTC that would be worth the headache.

Some small 3PP of 5 people could make $200k profit and be very happy.
WOTC wont get out the bed for $200k net profit.

I don't think that's necessarily the case. For one thing, just being a WotC publication probably increases sales by at least an order of magnitude over a comparable 3pp publication.

 

[Zardnaar]

Experiment gone awry is a good description of the Blue Age - Green Age transition. There was the equivalent of a global "biotech" disaster, and in order to fix it the halfings harnessed the power of the sun, changing it from blue to yellow.

The decline of the Green age, however, happened over thousands of years due to defiling, the cleansing wars and the crusade against druids. Even before the Champions changed the sun from yellow to red to imprison Rajaat, Athas was turning to a deserted wasteland. The timeline describes major coastal cities being swallowed by the Sea of Silt hundreds of year before the Champions revolted.

There were clearly singular events that sped up the collapse, but the process developed over a very long time, so the parallels with anthropogenic climate change are clearly there, even though filtered through the lens of the general public understanding of the issue as of 40 years ago.

It was based on climate activism of the time and there were cartoons like Captain Planet.

On of the novels references Bisnia in the foreword basically saying don't forget/drawing attention to the events transporting.

 

[Zardnaar]

I don't think that's necessarily the case. For one thing, just being a WotC publication probably increases sales by at least an order of magnitude over a comparable 3pp publication.

Anything 5E regardless of the quality seems to sell well.

Or standing least did we'll see what happens.

 

[Minigiant]

I don't think that's necessarily the case. For one thing, just being a WotC publication probably increases sales by at least an order of magnitude over a comparable 3pp publication.

Not Sales. Net Profit.
Revenue after Expenses.

The PR expenses, Marketing Expenses, and Design Manhours of Dark Sun would be huge for WOTC.
HUGE.
I mean it could easily take 5 Times the work the designers, marketing, and proofreaders spent on Spelljammer.
Kyle Brink would have to do a whole new circuit of interviews for sure.

 

[delericho]

Why relieved?

Because it's the hope that kills you.

 

[Yaarel]

It was more an experiment gone awry. Athas originally had a blue sun, but they tried to harness it's power magically and warped it to yellow and allowed psionics to develop. Then at some point it warped to red and the defiling destroyed most life and water on the planet. It is the way it is due to a magical catastrophe and defiling magic, not climate change.

If I recall correctly, the process of elemental destruction was a bit more protracted.

The defiling magic happened earlier, beginning the destruction of the element of Water, whence the Age of Magic.

It was the use of the defiling magic to extend the lifespan that then damaged the sun, turning it dark and hot.

The sun change was sudden, but afterward, the ongoing elemental imbalance by means of defiling, worsened.

 

[Yaarel]

EDIT: Thinking on it more, why couldn't WotC simply build a 5e "like-Dark Sun" setting from the ground up?

A new setting that inherits some of Dark Sun might happen.

Brink notes, Dark Sun has dedicated fans who he would love to make happy.

But I doubt any Dark-Sun-esque setting can happen before 2024.

 

[briggart]

It was based on climate activism of the time and there were cartoons like Captain Planet.

Exactly. My point was that the issues at the forefront of climate activism in 80s and 90s are related, but not identical, to the ones we are discussing today; partly because some measures were taken to address those (e.g. the restrictions on CFC refrigerants or the switch to unleaded fuels), partly because we have now a better understanding of the processes involved, and partly because after a while people just become numb to constant worrying and want to move on.

 

[Neal Freeman]

I wonder how long it will be before WotC remove all jeopardy and violence from D&D and it turns into My Little Pony the role playing game.

 

[Zardnaar]

Exactly. My point was that the issues at the forefront of climate activism in 80s and 90s are related, but not identical, to the ones we are discussing today; partly because some measures were taken to address those (e.g. the restrictions on CFC refrigerants or the switch to unleaded fuels), partly because we have now a better understanding of the processes involved, and partly because after a while people just become numb to constant worrying and want to move on.

I remember the CFC and unleaded petrol change overs. Aussie and NZ have thin ozone layer you can get burnt in 10-11 minutes I've had my skin bluster from the sun.

And in my lifetime you can see the glaciers melt with your own eyes.

 

[James Gasik]

I wonder how long it will be before WotC remove all jeopardy and violence from D&D and it turns into My Little Pony the role playing game.

Some believe it has already happened, and we simply haven't realized it yet.

 

[James Gasik]

I remember the CFC and unleaded petrol change overs. Aussie and NZ have thin ozone layer you can get burnt in 10-11 minutes I've had my skin bluster from the sun.

And in my lifetime you can see the glaciers melt with your own eyes.

And yet, you still have people who will refuse to believe it!

 

[Neal Freeman]

Some believe it has already happened, and we simply haven't realized it yet.

The Wild Beyond the Witchlight in particular attempts to avoid combat at every turn. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of players employing alternative solutions to problems over combat, but that adventure goes out of its way to avoid jeopardy. I'm in my mid-fifties and I've been playing since the 70s, so I guess that makes me old-school, but a game where there's no chance of serious setbacks simply does not interest me.

 

[Zardnaar]

And yet, you still have people who will refuse to believe it!

Yeah there's been a bit of Americanization sneaking in.

Well there's always been a few messier now. Seeing dont tread on me flags or even CSA flags at protests.

 

[James Gasik]

Yeah there's been a bit of Americanization sneaking in.

Well there's always been a few messier now. Seeing dont tread on me flags or even CSA flags at protests.

Let's not talk about politics, religion, or which D&D is better- such debates are not about facts, but emotions. Nothing good can come of it.

 

[James Gasik]

The Wild Beyond the Witchlight in particular attempts to avoid combat at every turn. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of players employing alternative solutions to problems over combat, but that adventure goes out of its way to avoid jeopardy. I'm in my mid-fifties and I've been playing since the 70s, so I guess that makes me old-school, but a game where there's no chance of serious setbacks simply does not interest me.

I get it, but I've also heard a lot of people who identify as "old school players" claim that avoiding 90% of combats and running away is an essential part of the game, and they hate "invincible adventurers" who actually fight most enemies and win!

 

[Zardnaar]

Let's not talk about politics, religion, or which D&D is better- such debates are not about facts, but emotions. Nothing good can come of it.

More about tge current military. Geographic isolation doesn't work so well now.