Based on the Google hits when you offered that author up? lol yeah I did.
Yeah, I think the first arc has her in that, but given how the run goes from there I think at a certain level it was mandated. Not that she isn't in sexy stuff after
Does liking the classic get-up make you sexist? I'm pretty sure that was the implicit question here, @Justice and Rule
I mean, if that's what you demand she wears, maybe? I'm reminded of the Mortal Kombat debate between MK9 and MK10 and 11 where certain fans were outraged at the changes of the female outfits. As it stands, I think it's probably better for someone like Sonja to wear something that is, err, a bit more functional given the nature of her stories. But including the old outfit isn't always a problem.
You do realize that someone saying "one thousand people who'll pay for a Call of Cthulhu tabletop game" is someone talking about how they feel persecuted, right? There's no "actual issue" there, beyond someone saying that even a small number of people who like something they don't like poisons the entire hobby. And yet you're saying we should "examine the matter" and ignore "what about my feelings?!" while saying we should pay careful attention to that person's feelings.
So yeah, your point here is rather garbled.
No, it's not talking about someone feeling persecuted, it's explicitly talking about someone feeling unwelcome
. That is very different, and I think if you don't understand the difference between the two this dialogue is not going to go far.
No, they're not calling for empathy. They're saying that one thousand people who'll pay for a Call of Cthulhu game is enough to make them feel unwelcome in the entire hobby. A hobby which has had over fifty million D&D players alone, to say nothing of countless other tabletop RPGs which have nothing to do with Cthulhu or Lovecraft. But a mere one thousand people who'll play a Cthulhu game is enough to make them feel not welcome. That says far and away more abut that person, and anyone defending them, than it does about the hobby.
But they are.
You're just not willing to recognize that. They are asking you to understand how they feel and how others like them feel about putting the name of someone who is incredibly racist as part of your ad copy, as well as how it feels for people to complain about having diversity in fantasy media. I thin
You don't seem to understand that you don't get to decide what's a bad trope and what isn't. No one person does, no matter what groups they happen to belong to. Everyone gets to decide that for themselves, and if one person says "one thousand other people who disagrees with me makes the entire hobby unwelcoming," then that's one person who clearly thinks the world of their own opinion and nothing at all of anyone else's. There's nothing welcoming in such a stance, regardless of how aggrieved they present themselves as being.
I don't believe I positioned myself as the sole keeper of what tropes are good and what tropes are bad and I'd say that's pretty self-evident from a good faith reading of what I wrote.
And again, it's all about how you
don't feel welcomed by someone feeling that certain aspects of the community aren't welcoming to individuals such as people complaining about minorities or still advertising on the legacy of racists. Again, this all comes off as "But what about my
feelings?!" instead of what we are talking about.
That point lacks the merit that you seem to think it possesses. If someone else says "one thousand people who like something I don't ruins the entire hobby for me," then that's them indicting themselves, not the hobby. That should be understood by anyone who agrees to the point that liking "problematic" content doesn't make you a bad person, and yet you're defending someone who made it clear that they think it does make you a bad person.
No, it makes them feel uncomfortable and unwelcome. That's very different, and maybe it's something you should listen to instead really trying to dismiss it as saying you are racist.
The irony here... I'm going to skip right over your misattribution about people are saying that there's nothing wrong with slavery, and instead go straight to the fact that you're arguing about something right now which is itself not the subject. Now, if you're trying to give a high-level demonstration of the issue, then I suppose more credit to you, but otherwise this entire paragraph is just...eesh.
Again, you switch words to try and catch me in a gotcha. There are literally people who want to argue how problematic something is. @Bedrockgames
literally was doing that. This coming off as being exceedingly desperate.
And I'm addressing the point that you didn't get the definition of concern trolling right. I'm not the one who started the tangential argument, I'm trying to bring it back while you keep talking about someone else's post making you feel like you are a racist.
You say that, and yet you keep overlooking that someone saying "one thousand people who'll pay for CoC content makes me feel unwelcome" is itself evidence of a persecution complex. Most people understand that other people can and will like things that you don't, and that doesn't make them bad people, let alone make an entire hobby unwelcoming. Any statement to the contrary not only has no rational basis, but cannot be taken seriously for its indicting an entire pastime on the basis of a fraction of a percentage of its hobbyists (who never did anything wrong to begin with). Defending that point just makes you look bad, even if you're trying to morph it into something that isn't so judgmental and exclusionary.
Again, this is a bunch of concern trolling. They said it made them feel unwelcome, that doesn't mean they are saying those people are racist. You are conflating things to feed your own persecution complex. You lack an argument for discussion so you resort to these tactics and honestly I'm done with it.
I am out and not able to give a full reply but I have discussed both. I have talked about how slavery in Dark Sun isn’t a problem and why. But censorship and shaming came up, they are also relevant to the overall discussion , so I addressed them (importantly because there have been posters defending those kinds of tactics)
It always comes up
and it always becomes a focus
. It is not
relevant to the discussion, yet it always gets steered that way.
No one is saying slavery is the only way to do oppression. We have already had this discussion. Of course it isn’t the only way but a lot of us thinking is the most effective for Dark Sun because of its cruel nature, it’s role in the history and genres being drawn on, and how it can do things like heighten stakes, etc. Like I said, hard to have a Spartacus campaign without slavery. And many people would want that. Further I also said I use those other approaches, like unfair contracts at a manufacturing facility, in plenty of other campaigns and settings. So I am not saying you can’t do them and achieve good effect, I just think slavery is crucial to dark sun and it’s themes. It shows just his devalued life. I have explained why before. If you aren’t persuaded, that is fine. We don’t have to agree
It's role in history doesn't matter when we are making a fantasy world. There are plenty of other things in history that don't make it into games all the time that would be more appropriate, whether it be the economics of these worlds, language barriers, how governments worked and other such things. Slavery always gets the "It's historical!" defense, but Athas isn't a real place and isn't related to our history. This always a defense and it is always frustrating because it is a really bad usage of history.
I strongly disagree with this. I know plenty of socially conscious gamers who love dark sun and who can watch Spartacus without getting queasy.
I can watch Spartacus without getting queasy, but it's rather different to actually interact with a world that has slavery rather than simply be an observer to it.