WoTC_krg posts on game design theory

[Ahglock]

My issue with point based builds is usually that there may be multiple good builds but that often people just seem to have less flavor. Things like a ranger or druid being able to make friends with animals are kind of cool and very much in flavor, but few people are ever going to spend points on that.

Yes, we had to make a conscious decision in our point based games to build non-combat/background elements into the character instead of just focusing on 10d6 EB. When we talked about the issue, we were able to resolve it.

 

[Lurks-no-More]

My issue with point based builds is usually that there may be multiple good builds but that often people just seem to have less flavor. Things like a ranger or druid being able to make friends with animals are kind of cool and very much in flavor, but few people are ever going to spend points on that.

Yeah. Point-buy systems lend themselves to munchkinism and min-maxing on levels almost never seen in D&D; they're wonderfully flexible, but that flexibility can be used for bad ends, creating hyper-focused psychotic killbots and whatnot that spoil the game for other players.

 

[glass]

I didn't know they hired Mathematicians. I think I picked the wrong job.

They probably didn't until recently. The attention to the maths behind the rules seems to be a relatively new thing.


glass.

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

Yeah. Point-buy systems lend themselves to munchkinism and min-maxing on levels almost never seen in D&D; they're wonderfully flexible, but that flexibility can be used for bad ends, creating hyper-focused psychotic killbots and whatnot that spoil the game for other players.

My brief experience with a RuneQuest game taught me the same thing. One character was so much more powerful than the others it made the whole thing kind of pointless.

thus - hurrah for character classes!

 

[Wolfspider]

Note that if it’s trivial to use multiple colors, or if different colors have nothing unique about them, you don’t have a color wheel (except maybe artistically). Also note that your players and your more junior designers will want to push in the direction of making it easier to use multiple colors, and letting each color have the cool things the other ones have. Don’t succumb.

Hmm. Doesn't this part of the quoted article seem to describe exactly what the 4e designers are doing with classes (making each class be able to do what the others can do--disarm traps, heal, fight with equivalent BAB, etc.) and to be highly critical of this approach?

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

I didn't know they hired Mathematicians.

They probably didn't until recently. The attention to the maths behind the rules seems to be a relatively new thing.

Richard Garfield? Ring a bell?

I keep saying, there is no RPG Development house in the world that takes game design as seriously as WOTC, and I guess folks just think I'm blowing smoke. But the amount of knowledge and experience in that building is truly remarkable.

The company makes games. It's all they do. They aren't half-assing it.

 

[glass]

Richard Garfield? Ring a bell?

Was he a mathematician? If he was, they didn't hire him solely as that, so my point still stands.

I keep saying, there is no RPG Development house in the world that takes game design as seriously as WOTC, and I guess folks just think I'm blowing smoke. But the amount of knowledge and experience in that building is truly remarkable.

I don't see how anything I said contradicts that. In fact, the fact that they are not resting on their laurels but instead thinking even more deeply about this edition that the previous one would seem to bear that out.


glass.

 

[D.Shaffer]

Hmm. Doesn't this part of the quoted article seem to describe exactly what the 4e designers are doing with classes (making each class be able to do what the others can do--disarm traps, heal, fight with equivalent BAB, etc.) and to be highly critical of this approach?

To me, it seems more like they're aware of the potential pitfuls with making classes to similar, and thus will likely take steps to maintain class identity. For example, while all classes may now have the option to find and disarm traps, (guess) the rogue will have it as an inherent ability, wont have to 'waste' a limited resource to grab it, and will be able to do it better in any case. But the OPTION to do it is still there for those parties who dont have a rogue.

 

[Steely Dan]

The attention to the maths behind the rules seems to be a relatively new thing.

Yep, when I talked to David Noonan on the Open Game Day at The London Dungeon he made a cryptic reference to their "magic spreadsheet" with all of the 4th Ed math laid out.

 

[Steely Dan]

Was he a mathematician?

Yes, he's a combinatorial mathematician.