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<blockquote data-quote="Korgoth" data-source="post: 3714456" data-attributes="member: 49613">One thing about &quot;Vancian&quot; magic: As much as I think that the traditional D&amp;D spellcasting works fine in most places (though the point about low level casters having 1 combat and then wanting to rest is well taken), it isn't really all that Vancian.In Vance, even a very accomplished mage can only memorize like 4 spells (archmages are different because they get extraplanar entities to do their magical grunt work, but that's a later concept from Vance and the original stories didn't include such notions).&nbsp; Each of the 3-5 spells they can &quot;encompass&quot;, however, will tend to be a doozy: we're talking like 7th-9th level spells probably in D&amp;D terms.&nbsp; The &quot;Excellent Prismatic Spray&quot; is way better than the 'Dinky Prismatic Spray' of D&amp;D: the EPS is basically the magical equivalent of getting riddled with bullets from a .50 caliber machinegun.&nbsp; It royally wastes whatever it hits, and there may not even be a prospect of it missing.&nbsp; Likewise, &quot;Phandal's Gyrator&quot; and others.&nbsp; It isn't really a &quot;hit or miss&quot; proposition as far as I can tell, except when a goof like Cugel (a thief and dabbler, not a wizard) just tries to read a spell aloud without really knowing what he's doing (and almost always gets it backwards).Nor is there any evidence that you could 'memorize' a Vancian spell more than once.&nbsp; And again, there isn't anything like &quot;light&quot; or &quot;read magic&quot; or whatnot, or even &quot;Magic Missile&quot;: we're talking more like &quot;Magic Intercontinental Ballistic MIRV&quot;.&nbsp; Even the mightiest princes are afraid of middling-level wizards since each is likely to have at least one insta-kill up his sleeve.I'm anxious to see whether I'll like the changes they're making.&nbsp; I have nothing against the present system in principle.&nbsp; However, the present system is at best &quot;quasi-Vancian&quot;.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Korgoth, post: 3714456, member: 49613"] One thing about "Vancian" magic: As much as I think that the traditional D&D spellcasting works fine in most places (though the point about low level casters having 1 combat and then wanting to rest is well taken), it isn't really all that Vancian. In Vance, even a very accomplished mage can only memorize like 4 spells (archmages are different because they get extraplanar entities to do their magical grunt work, but that's a later concept from Vance and the original stories didn't include such notions). Each of the 3-5 spells they can "encompass", however, will tend to be a doozy: we're talking like 7th-9th level spells probably in D&D terms. The "Excellent Prismatic Spray" is way better than the 'Dinky Prismatic Spray' of D&D: the EPS is basically the magical equivalent of getting riddled with bullets from a .50 caliber machinegun. It royally wastes whatever it hits, and there may not even be a prospect of it missing. Likewise, "Phandal's Gyrator" and others. It isn't really a "hit or miss" proposition as far as I can tell, except when a goof like Cugel (a thief and dabbler, not a wizard) just tries to read a spell aloud without really knowing what he's doing (and almost always gets it backwards). Nor is there any evidence that you could 'memorize' a Vancian spell more than once. And again, there isn't anything like "light" or "read magic" or whatnot, or even "Magic Missile": we're talking more like "Magic Intercontinental Ballistic MIRV". Even the mightiest princes are afraid of middling-level wizards since each is likely to have at least one insta-kill up his sleeve. I'm anxious to see whether I'll like the changes they're making. I have nothing against the present system in principle. However, the present system is at best "quasi-Vancian". [/QUOTE]

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