Would anyone prefer spellcasting to stay as it is?

[TheArcane]

Out of pure curiosity, since it has already been confirmed that spellcasting will undergo serious changes, is there anyone who is less enthusiastic about it?

Sure, it may not be so exciting to run out of spells and remain useless until the next nap, but here are some points to consider:

- Wizards possess great power, way beyond fighter-type classes, at least that's the way I see it. The tradeoff is having limited use of it. Giving the wizard some form of unlimited casting, without breaking the game, has to be accompanied either by some weakening of spells or massive reduction of powerful spell uses per-day/encounter/whatever or something like that. It would just ruin the experience for me, giving up Meteor Swarms of Doom for the ability to fling around magic missiles at will.

- Having to think and plan ahead is part of the challenge, and sounds particularly in character for a wizard. Deciding whether to pull out the "ace in the sleeve" now, or wait in case something even more dreadful awaits in the next room, is a lot more interesting IMHO than knowing you can fire at will just because it will all be ready again for the next fight.

- Logically, how can a wizard just walk around all day shooting spells? Doesn't he get tired? It also sounds a little broken... Like having a crossbow that doesn't need darts... (And always hits a-la magic missile? Requires only touch attacks?) Doesn't sound very fun at all.

- I just can't imagine a wizard without the stereotypical endless memorization and studying and the complete dependence on his spell-book. Dragonlance's Raistlin comes to mind...

So, WOTC are definitely slaying a holy cow here as far as I'm considered. Of course I do not yet know any particular details, just rumors and speculations, but so far this is the only thing that's been bothering me. Any opinions?

 

[Minicol]

I do prefer spellcasting the way it is.

Wizards spend way too much time complaining that they don't rule the world while they already are.

I am not buying the wizards are weak and need more power argument. Not after seeing my friends ruin so many games of Living greyhawk with their spells.

 

[WhatGravitas]

So, WOTC are definitely slaying a holy cow here as far as I'm considered. Of course I do not yet know any particular details, just rumors and speculations, but so far this is the only thing that's been bothering me. Any opinions?

For me, a great deal of the game is fun. Especially on lower levels, being a wizard can be boring, and the wizard is fragile like nothing, so without his big guns, he's more than useless - he's a liability for the rest of the group, and that's bad, because you, as player, drag the rest down AND need protection, possibly without any reward.

Let's say, you're a 2nd- or 3rd level wizard and a hard encounter forces you to blow through all resources, then you basically become a commoner.

If not for the XP, it'd be better for you to stay behind, while the rest of the group continues to do stuff, because then, they don't have to worry about your hide - and that's less than compelling.

Or you spend your money on wands and scrolls, then you keep being powerful all day... but it costs you money - but still, you get more treasure, than you spend - but still, you're a money-drain, just to be more than a commoner - and hence a liability to the party, again (money-wise, this time).

While these concepts are engaging story-wise, they're not so fun for the player AND the rest of the group (aside from unwanted slapstick, because the wizard runs around like Chicken Little).

They don't have to give the wizards unlimited spells, just give them the ability to be more than a d4-fragility that has a "I win"-button once or twice per day.

And if they tone done the "big guns" of the wizard a bit... is this that bad? Wizards can be pretty broken (and hence a spotlight-hugger) - that's neither fun, nor very engaging, even story-wise.

Sure, that's a very gamist point of view, but then, it is a game.

And concerning "Doesn't he get tired?" - the fighter can bash all the day, doesn't he get tired? So, that's a problem prevalent in the entire game since the beginning.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Pamela]

I prefer changes. Spellcasters are over-powered at higher levels and way too weak at the beginning. If you were trying to roleplay this, would you really take along the newbie wizard without having his more experienced mentor to fall back on?

But then I prefer paladins.

 

[DungeonMaester]

Yes. With Meta magic and reserve feats it is perfect.

---Rusty

 

[Pamela]

For me, a great deal of the game is fun. Especially on lower levels, being a wizard can be boring, and the wizard is fragile like nothing, so without his big guns, he's more than useless - he's a liability for the rest of the group, and that's bad, because you, as player, drag the rest down AND need protection, possibly without any reward.

Let's say, you're a 2nd- or 3rd level wizard and a hard encounter forces you to blow through all resources, then you basically become a commoner.

If not for the XP, it'd be better for you to stay behind, while the rest of the group continues to do stuff, because then, they don't have to worry about your hide - and that's less than compelling.

Or you spend your money on wands and scrolls, then you keep being powerful all day... but it costs you money - but still, you get more treasure, than you spend - but still, you're a money-drain, just to be more than a commoner - and hence a liability to the party, again (money-wise, this time).

While these concepts are engaging story-wise, they're not so fun for the player AND the rest of the group (aside from unwanted slapstick, because the wizard runs around like Chicken Little).

They don't have to give the wizards unlimited spells, just give them the ability to be more than a d4-fragility that has a "I win"-button once or twice per day.

And if they tone done the "big guns" of the wizard a bit... is this that bad? Wizards can be pretty broken (and hence a spotlight-hugger) - that's neither fun, nor very engaging, even story-wise.

Sure, that's a very gamist point of view, but then, it is a game.

And concerning "Doesn't he get tired?" - the fighter can bash all the day, doesn't he get tired? So, that's a problem prevalent in the entire game since the beginning.

Cheers, LT.

Sorry, I only saw this post after I did mine- very good description! And I agree with you that if it means less powerful spells at higher levels- or less frequent use of them, then so be it.

 

[Michael Silverbane]

I do like the current spellcasting system (in particular, I like vancian spell preparation)...

On the other hand, I was pretty excited about things like the warlock, incarnum, reserve feats, and other magical options that are at will or always on...

So, I'm a bit torn, really. Of course, if they do a really good job with the new magic systems, then maybe we'll get the best of both worlds. I am hopeful that this will be the case.

Later
silver

 

[SSquirrel]

As a big fan of Arcana Evolved, the current fire and forget, inflexible magic system is a holy cow I'll happily help hold down so it can be slaughtered They've basically already admitted there will be power creep in the new game as they're buffing up a variety of classes, making sure everyone always has something to do, etc. They're even trying to make races influence on your class stronger so say, a dwarf and elf fighter play a bit differently. I just hope that isn't being accomplished by just assuming the dwarf uses an axe and the elf uses a bow.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I hate having the game grind to a halt repeatedly inside a very small dungeon for low-level casters. Adding built-in reserve feats/warlock-style casting to a fire-and-forget system (which is apparently what they're going to do) sounds great to me.

 

[Greg K]

I don't prefer it stays at is, but I also don't want it to go per encounter either. I'd rather just use something like either spellpoints with vitalizing, ENWorld Elements of Magic: Mythic Earth, or True20 instead of what we are getting from WOTC.