Would anyone prefer spellcasting to stay as it is?

[Melan]

If it isn't Vancian, it isn't D&D, that simple. This of course means that Sorcerers and Warlocks are Of a Different Game.

 

[SSquirrel]

Yeah but this is what I don't fully understand. You played a ton of other systems and you liked them better... Then why do you want D&D to turn into one of them? Can't you just keep playing them?

Why trying to adapt D&D to become something else? We're talking about major changes and sacred cows here, not fixes to mechanics.

It's like saying "i don't like soccer because you cannot touch the ball with your hands, like in other games (basketball, football, volley...), so let's change soccer because the total number of players of the other games is larger", it is totally nonsense

edit: so how would you feel about your favourite Mage: The Ascension publishing a new edition that switches to vancian magic for marketing reasons??

Heh, I wouldn't buy that version of Mage. I bought the core book of the NWoD version of Mage and no more. I didn't say I like the whole system better, but that I preferred the way that magic was handled. If the main issue I have w/D&D is its magic system, of course I'm going to tweak it. It's not a good analogy w/your soccer game, which wasn't even really comparing the same points (# of player to if you can use hands). Considering they designed 3E as a toolkit and told you if you don't like things to change it, I think it's my duty to change it.

Sacred cows are made to be ground into burgers. The major change IS a fix to mechanics. For ME, it works better to run magic differently. Some of my friends agree. I think every one of my friends finds "fire and forget" stupid. I have no respect for the sacred cows of gaming, I'd much rather help make the game more fun for myself and friends. Just take a look at all the great systems that came out of the OGL system that were rooted in 3E. Arcana Evolved, Mutants and Masterminds and Conan are 3 very different takes on what you can do w/the system, yet all 3 were successful. All 3 heavily borrowed ideas from other sources (at least conceptually if not directly from other OGL material) and created something new and very different that appealed to people.

It's likely we won't agree, but that's ok too

 

[SSquirrel]

When I played a 2e game after some years of playing all those non-D&D games with different magic systems, I found--much to my surprise I might add--the D&D spell system to be fresh & innovative.

"Wow! I don't have to roll to see if I successfully cast the spell or not? Wow! Where has this game been the last five years? Oh, yeah...on my shelf."

Not to criticize anyone for expressing their feelings about the system. Just expressing my own.

Totally understand man One aspect of the way magic works in D&D is that, if you prepared it and have the mats (if needed), it just works. That is very cool. Of course, you get the same effect playing 3E. In Mage, you have to roll to see if you pulled off your spell properly, but there are ways of exerting yourself to make it easier to pull off (spending Quintessence). But in Mage, the paradigm of reality is different. In D&D it just works b/c people believe in it, the laws of that universe function that way etc. In the Mythic Age of earth in Mage, it worked the same way. W/more universal unbelief tho, magic is harder to pull off.

While it would maybe be a hassle to try and convert, a totally free-form magic system like Mage on top of D&D would be interesting. If you have the power in your various spheres to pull off what you are wanting to do, you can do it. I kinda play Mage in a different headspace and with different expectations than D&D. Kinda like in CoC I don't expect to kill all the bad things we run into. I just pray we survive and don't go mad doing so. Maybe even kill a few of em.

Palehorse>Speaking of old magic users, if we were able to con a DM into a couple of items for our games, I would always try for a decent ring of protection and a dagger of throwing +whatever I could weasel my way into heh. You have a +3 or 4 dagger and better armor class, combat got a LOT less scary. Plus, you got iterative attacks from the dagger's fast throwing rate. I usually put Dex as my 2nd highest stat on mages tho.

What I can't get past is the idea that he has to prepare all his daily spells in the morning, in a single session. Wouldn't it be logical to leave a few slots empty in case some utility spells (things like levitation or comprehend languages) are needed later on?

I know Arcana Evolved allows something like this. I believe you spend 15 minutes to swap out some spells as needed. Haven't looked that rule up in awhile.

Man, I haven't posted much on ENWorld in awhile, and now i've been posting like mad since 4E got announced.

Speaking of alternate versions of D&D, time to necro a thread (maybe even 2!) Dr Spunj's Class Balance Spreadsheet
This ditches the standard D&D system in favor of the AE one, and shows you class templates as well as free-form class design point buy style for D&D and Arcana Evolved classes. It was very interesting and actually balanced out pretty nicely. That and the revised Ken Hood Revised Grim n Gritty Rules were 2 of my favorite crunchy bits I've ever discovered on ENWorld

 

[Arashi Ravenblade]

Leave it alone. I like it as is.

 

[phoenixgod2000]

I am torn about the magic system. I don't particularly like the current magic system as a DM because I like creepier games and magic is just too video-gamy for my tastes. On the other hand, I do like running wizards with their wacky resource management. I like having tricks and scrolls, and needing to be smart about magic use. Frankly, I've never had some of the common problems that people talk about with wizards shooting their wad early. A couple players tried to pull it early in 3e and I just told them that they weren't tired and they needed to press on till it actually was time for them to rest. <shrug> My players started being smart and watching where and when they use magic.

I also don't understand how at will and per encounter abilities can at all be considered resource management since they will be able to use them in every fight. I admit that I am basing that assumption on the fact that a wizard can still be at eighty percent power after having burned his memorized spells for the day. There is no resource management if you never run out of power. In a practical sense, how is a wizard who can shoot a magic missile or two forever once his big guns are gone different than a wizard who needs to pull out crossbow. The crossbow is just built in is all.

On the other hand, my personal holy grail is for a skills and feats magic system similar to Ken Hood's Psionics. If they really go to a talent/feat class system, it will be simplicity itself to convert what I have done in terms of my homebrew system to a series of feats and mystical Talent Trees. I have to admit, I am really excited for the concept of talents. bringing out new ones is a great way to expand the abilities of spellcasters in new ways without needing new prestige classes and endless books of spells.

Like I said, I am conflicted. But the possiblities have me intrigued.