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Message: <blockquote data-quote="JamesonCourage" data-source="post: 5859325" data-attributes="member: 6668292">Well:I think him saying "if you do this thing I don't want, I won't play with you" and not being willing to compromise qualifies as an ultimatum.When I created a new region for the players to explore two weeks ago, I asked them each to come up with one "fact" for it. I'd interpret it, and it'd fit my view, but I'd stick to the spirit of their fact. To me, this is exploring player preference. Hearing "I want this type of character" and working with the player is listening to their preference. Hearing "I would prefer games where my character doesn't die, since I have so much invested in him" and working with him is listening to player preference.Having someone say "it's this way, or I'm done" is an ultimatum. It's not necessarily unjustified; if he feels unfulfilled, why play that way? It makes it harder to be unsympathetic, with him being a "good roleplayer" and all. I'd want to compromise, but that doesn't change the fact that if he's not willing to, it is indeed an ultimatum.Compromise needs to happen on both ends. Otherwise, it's not compromise, it's one side settling. Sometimes, that needs to happen for one side to enjoy the game. Unfortunately, if that's true of both sides, they probably can't play well together. It sucks when gaming styles are otherwise compatible, but it happens sometimes.I really don't like this analogy much. In your analogy, he can't enjoy anything about the meal, and it's life-threatening.I'd prefer something like a group get-together. You tell him you're planning on playing some video games, eating some food, hanging out talking and playing cards or a board game, and watching a movie. One likely movie candidate is a movie he can't stand. Since talking during the whole movie isn't an option, he can't even really deal with it by passing the time that way. He says that if you watch the movie, he'll take off when you do so.Now, you can change the movie, but the group is really considering watching it, as it's been talked about for months. He can enjoy the rest of the night up to the point that the movie comes on, but it's his call if he wants to leave then. The other movies are fine, but the groups likes the option of the movie on the table, and doesn't want to take it off just because of his preference.In this, the new player can enjoy nearly everything else, but in asking the group to take an option out of the game that is enjoyable to the other players or he'll walk, it's an ultimatum. An understandable one, as I've said above, and even more unfortunate. But sometimes, when the new guys says something like that your group, you watch the movie anyways, and hope he stays for it. If he doesn't, well, it's fair, he gave you a heads up, and he just doesn't like it. But maybe he'll stick around for the experience with your group, and meet your group there since he enjoyed everything before it.Oh, I definitely think he's expressing his preference, but I do believe it's being expressed through an ultimatum. I've done the same to one past GM, though I made it clear that he had the right to run the game however he wanted. He just did something in most of his games that I couldn't enjoy, and I let him know that I'd be out if/when it happened.It was a heads up for him, not me trying to get him to change his style. This is likely a similar scenario. However, I'd still consider it an ultimatum on my part, since I really wasn't willing to compromise. I was saying, "if you do things this way, I'm not playing with you" with no compromise. There's an implicit demand there: if you want to keep me as a player, run things this way. I did make it clear he had to right to run his game however he wanted to, much as I did when he played with me, but there's still that implied demand.I suppose if there's absolutely no pressure for the GM to meet you on your end or compromise (due to admirable communication and open-mindedness on both sides), there's no implicit demand. In most situations, however, I imagine a GM is struggling with the heads up, much as Water Bob did before posting.So, maybe I should change my input to "probable implicit ultimatum, though not necessarily." You know, just to cover my bases, and because it could definitely be the case.Anyways, I sympathize with both sides. As always, play what you like <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Perhaps he's informing the guy running the game out of courtesy?But, yeah, this is what makes me think it's an implicit ultimatum. He could definitely be informing Water Bob out of courtesy. But, I do think he probably wants his expressed preference taken into account, too. It's not for sure, but it did seem like Water Bob struggled with the statement in regards to his GMing style with the player's new PC.Now, his struggle could be due to being a very considerate GM, but it could also be due to the tone in which the statement was made. If the tone or general feel of the statement was such that it made Water Bob question whether he should change (rather that just him wondering out of being a considerate guy and GM), then I think it might carry that "implicit ultimatum" I mentioned earlier.But, I do agree with Umbran: we weren't there, and we don't know. It could be courtesy, and Water Bob could easily be a good guy debating how he can make his players happy even if that wasn't the intent of the statement.I do think that both sides should game together. Fate Points will help protect him, and Water Bob seems to like rooting for them and is story-oriented. I think they'll be pretty compatible, as long as Water Bob advises the new player to hold onto his Fate Points for survival, and the new player takes him up on his advice. Just my thoughts on it. As always, play what you like <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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