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Message: <blockquote data-quote="JamesonCourage" data-source="post: 5868737" data-attributes="member: 6668292">I, um, agree with your point. Hussar doesn't, I think. But, to me, the GM gets the ultimate say on their game, and they should only run a game they enjoy. They should work with the players inside of the parameters that fit themselves best. So, yeah... I agree with you. Love it when that happens. As always, play what you like <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Okay, I'll try to be more clear...Okay, let's take your example of the PCs being chased by 5 undead and a demon. You're making them roll endurance checks, they're jogging on for eight hours trying to escape, they're injured at 2 HP and 6 HP, etc. The tension is high, and they think they're most likely going to die based on how you've told them you run the game.However, you know that if they're going to die, you're going to magically make the amulet magical, and it's going to save them. No, you didn't need to use it, but that was the contingency plan. The backup plan. You were planning on saving them if necessary.By doing so, you're going to deny them other possible naturally unfolding storylines. For example, say one PC makes his endurance check and another doesn't: now, you have one PC who can continue going, leaving the other PC behind. Do they go for this option? Will they adopt a "why should both of us die?" attitude, or will they adopt a "live together, die together" attitude? Will the guy who failed his check courageously urge his brother on so he'll live, or beg him to stay because he's afraid of dying after all they've gone through?If both fail, do they stand their ground together? Do they split up in hopes of losing them or hiding separately? Does one brother walk on, looking for a place to hide, while the other charges into the undead in an attempt to stall?These storylines would be denied to your players. And that's too bad, because they can be pretty damn cool. In essence, this is what I mean by denying storylines. You'd be exchanging their likely "loss" for a "awesome magic item!" moment. If everything is on the up and up and there's no fudging (even if it's not dice fudging), you can see either storyline unfold naturally.For example, let's say that the amulet is magical, for sure, and it works to protect against undead. Then, let's say that one PC fails his endurance check, and can't continue on with his brother. He throws the clan's amulet to the other brother and shouts at him to run, and you inwardly wince, knowing that he threw away his best chance to live. The other brother continues to run, while the one who failed his check waits for the undead, chucks his spear at one, and starts leading them in a different direction. You might end up with a dead PC, but he could go out sacrificing his life for his brother, and it might be really cool. You're denying them that storyline. And, while there's nothing wrong with the way you're running the game, I'd feel a little cheated if I caught on to what you were doing, or if I ever found out (even afterwards). I mean, I'd still have fun, but the game wasn't how you told me it was.Take the example above of one brother failing his check and the other fleeing with the amulet: by not letting this scene unfold naturally, you're essentially stealing this from your players, who are assuming you won't be pulling any punches based on your professed style of game.It's just misleading other adults. I don't think I'd do it to my friends, since I think it's only fair to tell them, as other adults, how I'm going to run my game. This is their free time, too, and I don't want them to feel cheated, or lied to. And, even if they never find out, I don't want to cheat or lie to them.Yep. I have the same reservations about this approach, too. To me, this isn't lying to them. You're telling them something about magic in the campaign: it costs something. This isn't broadly lying to them, it's informing them. If you said "this will cost experience points" then it'd be lying to them. If you're reminding them "remember, this is Conan's world, where magic is costly; with a spell like this, you're probably going to lose experience points", then I'd say you're just reinforcing the setting, not actually lying to them.I consider both to be "fudging" so, when you say "I never do fudge", it can be misleading. It's a definition issue. You never fudge dice. You do fudge outcomes. If you purposefully gave the impression to the players that their lives are dangerous because you never fudge dice, that's fine. You don't fudge dice, and there's no lie there. If you knowingly trick them into thinking you're not fudging behind the scenes (when you actually are), that's the part I wouldn't do, personally. It's lying to people about what game they're playing, in my opinion, and I don't want to do that. This is also a difference between us; I don't craft scenarios with the goal of the PCs triumphing in mind. I have a setting, and I have "this is what is most likely to be here" as the norm, and I have random rolls to determine what else is going on or what might be different right now (based on probability... that is, it's extremely unlikely that there are no guards on the walls of the city).So, that's probably another disconnect. Yeah. I've got five guys right now (it will be six when college relaxes soon for one guy, though he has his first kid on the way). I have a couple people who are interested. I'm very picky. I've had others join that I've eventually kicked out. If things didn't work out with my current players, I'd transition them out, too. The two newest guys are the most incompatible, but they fit well enough.But, in my opinion, don't let any new players in if it means running a game in a way you don't like. That's not to say you have to run it the same as you are now; just, don't run the game if it's not exciting to think about outside of game. If your creative juices aren't flowing, if you don't get satisfaction making NPCs and looking at maps and putting in details here and there, it's probably not going to be worth it for you in the long run. As always, play what you like <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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