D&D 5E Would you rebuy all the books if they were updated?

Another perspective to look at this from is that an update from player feedback isn't necessary to purchase but rather a means by which you can support the company. After all, at the end of the day they have to make stuff that needs to be bought or they die and shrivel and get bought by someone horrible, like, Rupert Murdoch who then goes on to make the "D&D 6.0: Terrorists!" edition.

The alternative is releasing tons of product that generates a trickle of revenue because hardly anyone really wants all that stuff, which is the model that has been the status quo since 2e and doesn't seem to have worked out very well so far.
 

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[MENTION=59082]Mercurius[/MENTION]: I was playing WoD during the Options and Powers era, but my impression is that they were modular, not core. Those are actually the sort of thing I kinda expect from 5E, in a few years. If they were core, then, yeah, it'd be a new edition. I also think that 3.5 was really a new edition.

From OD&D through 2E, there was an evolution to the game, but it was recognizable at it's core and didn't radically change. My initial reaction to 3E was that they flipped THAC0, tidied up skills, and standardized level progression. Sure, it broke compatibility, but so what? Turns out that the underlying engine was actually overhauled pretty heavily and my hindsight evaluation is that it pushed the limits of how far you can take a system and still have it be the same game. 4E broke well past that limit, regardless of the quality. 5E is closer to its roots, which is why the zig doesn't bother me as much.

If you look at other RPGs, most of them don't change a ton between editions. Hero has refined the math, but remains essentially the same as what I played it 1991. WoD had a Revised and 2nd edition that were largely compatible with the original; even the renamed Storytelling system (nWoD) is reasonably close to the original concept. Every now and then, one gets heavily redone. Shadowrun 4E, for example. Or the Star Wars game, every time a new company gets the license. It's not the norm, though. Even compatible changes can warrant an edition, if they change core mechanics or constructs.

Clearly, opinions vary on that. I'm not opposed to some change. I expect and even welcome some. I'd just like some boundaries around them. Those boundaries, IMO, are editions. If you need to revise the PHB (beyond fixing typos or clarifying minor points), it's a new edition. I actually don't attach much stigma to a new edition, so long as it's not too frequent. Please just label it correctly.

As far as 4E goes, I didn't play it very long. If the math was really that bad, then they needed to fix it. So, 4E crashed and burned and was incremented to a new edition. Call it 4E Revised, 4.5, or 5E, but don't call it 4E. Again, give some markers for changes. Personally, when I hear that the 4E math was so bad that it required revision to be playable, it just reinforces the unprofessional image I have of that era. They released a faulty product and tried to shore it up by "patching" a medium that can't be patched.

Actually, that last statement may be the core of the disconnect. I view tabletop RPGs as an inherently dead-tree product. I don't mean that in the sense of hating PDFs or not allowing electronic aids at the table -- both are welcome tools. I mean that the game, to me, is represented by what's sitting on my bookshelf (digital or physical). It does not require any further contact with the creator after my purchase to remain valid and sharable with others playing the same game. Again, I welcome interaction online and with the creators; it's just a bonus.

If a new player joins my game, anything that breaks down in me telling him, "We're playing 5E, you'll need the PHB, which you can find on Amazon" is bad. Again, I'm all over additional classes, races, rules modules, whatever. That's something that goes beyond the base rules, though. When 9E comes out, and I'm a 5E grognard, I want to be able to tell people that I'm playing 5E and have it be meaningful. If I say, "I'm playing 5E," there should never, not ever, be any rational way for the other person to ask me "Which version?" If that question could be asked, it's time to just acknowledge that the edition number should be incremented.

Note that "What splat books?" isn't the same question and does make sense. Even asking, "Are you using feats (or other rules modules)?" makes sense. The key constraint is that, once a rules module is added, it's there for the duration. The XP table doesn't change, nor do stat bonuses, proficiency bonuses, class features, spell descriptions (hello Polymorph), etc.
 

[MENTION=5100]Mercule[/MENTION], I agree that with 5E we see a bit of a "course correction" from the more non-traditional 4E. Nothing wrong with 4E, but it certainly did "zig" away, and 5E "zagged" back. I've said this before but I think 4E might have been better received as a variant d20 game, and then they could have gone even more gonzo with it.

I would have really liked to see 4E Revised. In fact, around 2010 I was hoping that they would errata, revise, and combine PHB 1 and PHB 2 into a revised mega-PHB. But instead we got Essentials and I knew 4E had jumped the shark.

A question. Let's say WotC comes out with a PHB in a few years, say 2017 or 2018, that includes errata, rules clarifications, maybe a few added bits and pieces, an improved class or two, some new art, new cover, etc. But everything is still perfectly compatible - the 2014 PHB still works fine, and so on. Would you consider that a new edition? Would it bother you that it came out?

Oh yeah, I also agree that tabletop RPGs are really a product of the dead-tree era, and will likely remain so. But I don't think books are going away, at least not in the 21st century. I mean, we'll likely see more and more ebooks, but books aren't eight-tracks or cassettes, they're more like violins or guitars - they are classic human artifacts that really can't be adequately replaced by superior technology, or rather there are irreducible qualities to a book--the whole tactile experience, browsing, the bookshelf--that simply can't be captured by a PDF. This is why when I look at my collection, I don't see my PDFs as "real" products or games that I own. I see them more as occasional reference documents. But I greatly dislike reading extensively from them.
 



I have to admit being torn. In 4e, I really enjoyed following the changes as they went. 4e was the closest to a "living" edition we ever had. With the DDI online character builder, it was easy to tell a new player to hop on my laptop and make a character, and I didn't have to worry about it. Of course, the constant changes quickly made the physical books basically useless, but for me that wasn't a dealbreaker, since I used the online toold for everything anyway.

However, 5e is trying to be something really different, and it makes sense as a dead-tree product. D&D 5e is supposed to the definitive expression of traditional D&D. It's not supposed to live, it's more of a solid, simple but effective starting point for regular old dungeon crawling fun.

The truth is, what I wish they had done was release what we have now as a playtest, so all the issues that keep popping up could be fixed without invalidating everyone's purchases. If they really want an edition to be definitive, it needs to be completely opened up to the community for a long time before being finalized. Anything less will produce errors, as seen in every edition of d&d. I would rather patch errors than leave them untouched, but better yet would be to avoid errors in the first place.
 

Absolutely not. If they find they have that many problems after all the extensive feedback and playtesting, I'm not going to trust them to do a good job on revisions.
 

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