Wounds/Vitality and Defense?

[Mordane76]

We use Defense in my home game, and we did use VP/WP there for a while as well, but decided to return to HP after two college semesters worth of using them -- We were using some other variant rules as well, and all of it together just made the math too wonky. I get enough math in college, so I told the players we were going back to standard HP.

We use the "Grim-n-Gritty" tables for figuring Defense; it makes doing so for monsters really easy as well, and we just figure their natural armor as one of their defense modifiers.

 

[Katowice]

I'd like to see Defense added, simply because the only way to have a high AC in D&D right now is with armor. This goes against plenty of movies (like LOTR, Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves) where unarmored heroes whomp more heavily armored bad guys, without having to be monks or duelists or have a Dex 20. Unlike other abilities, AC has nothing to do with level in the basic rules, so an unarmored 20th level character is as vulnerable as an unarmored 1st level character.

I'm not a big fan of VP/WP, except for in Star Wars, but having all of these as optional rules in Unearthed Arcana is fine by me. Also, since d20Modern uses HP, it has a massive damage threshold equal to Con, which would also be a nice optional rule to include. I refer you back to the original mantra behind D&D 3rd edition, which was "options not limitations [sic]"

 

[Dinkeldog]

I'm okay with defense. I don't think it's necessary, though. That might be because we generally play high fantasy, and there are plenty of AC boosting items. I could also note that in the d20 Modern games I've played in, the way you get your AC up is using cover and concealment. The defense bonus is really pretty trivial.

WP/VP is a bad idea in a system where the crits flow so freely. One lucky shot by the sandpeople, and you're playing lame for the rest of the fight (if not the session at low levels, otherwise clerics are even more required/boring with the desperate need for healing magic). It's too high a penalty for having done nothing wrong, unless, possibly, you're playing NWN-style and resting after every battle.

 

[Psion]

I don't mind defense in D&D... actually, I am using it right now, using the Second World Sourcebook adaptation.

I like Wounds & Vitality (and think they flubbed forgoing it in d20 Modern), but wouldn't want to use it for D&D.

 

[Thresher]

WP/VP are ok in Star Wars, its not really as combat heavy as D&D which Ive often thought is a primer for medievil home invasion

"Kick in the door, slay the baddies, nick their stuff"

In Star Wars you'll learn pretty quick which fights you will pick, which ones to run from, even if youve got the best of everything, tactics, weapons and armour. Statistics will get you in the end, eventually if youre shot/stabbed at enough times one of the goons will roll a 20 and manage to convert, then its going to be a fall. Most character dont have the WP's to live through a blaster or sabre, my gaming group has been playing enough 'somewhat lethal' game systems over many years so some of us tend to be a bit more cautious and toey around a serious fight.

As for D&D, it seems to be very heavily oriented towards heroic adventure, epic fights and I dont think without a lot of work that the game would be as easy to run with characters getting capped, somewhat un-heroicly on some occasions. So D&D is a bit dumb, unrealistic, often unimaginative with regards to combat but it suits the heroic genre very well.