"Wraithblade" ?

[kevtar]

sneak attack & crits

So... after reading this thread I'm confused about sneak attacks and critical hits. Can you not apply sneak attack damage to a target that you hit with a critical hit?

Also, if sneak attack damage can be applied to a critical hit, (and I'm not trying to hijack/fork the thread), does the sneak attack damage get maximized with a critical hit?

Thanks in advance

 

[Piratecat]

CapnZapp, that was a beautiful summation in post #19.

Kevtar, you can apply sneak attack damage on a critical hit. This weapon just lets you do it even when you don't have combat advantage, and even if you've already done so this round.

Sneak attack damage is maximized on a critical hit. That's one of the things that makes rogues dreamy.

 

[Regicide]

Not everyone knows Mouseferatu; the author of the weapon actually weighed in at post #6, explaining that no, you don't need Combat Advantage. Otherwise I'd agree that you had an equally valid interpretation of how the damn thing works.

It doesn't say anything at all about not needing combat advantage. Unless it gets updated, that would be a house rule, author's intention or not.

 

[Piratecat]

It doesn't say anything at all about not needing combat advantage. Unless it gets updated, that would be a house rule, author's intention or not.

I disagree, although not strenuously.

If you have combat advantage already, you automatically can already do sneak attack damage. With your interpretation I think the only way the weapon has an effect would be on those very rare circumstances that you attack (and get sneak attack damage), spend an action point, attack again and get a critical. I guess you're welcome to hand out such an item if you like, but that seems woefully underpowered to me.

Or you can go with the "doubles your sneak attack damage on that critical hit," I guess, giving a flat 24 point bonus (or 32 point bonus) on a crit with CA.

 

[Regicide]

With your interpretation I think the only way the weapon has an effect would be on those very rare circumstances that you attack (and get sneak attack damage), spend an action point, attack again and get a critical.

There are a lot more ways than that. OAs probably being the big one, but some powers the rogue or others in the party have could also allow it including twin strike.

 

[CapnZapp]

It doesn't say anything at all about not needing combat advantage. Unless it gets updated, that would be a house rule, author's intention or not.

Not exactly sure what you are discussing, but just for the record:

1) yes, the weapon does not mention combat advantage.
2) no, it simply allows you to deal bonus sneak attack damage, not involving the sneak attack rogue class feature, only its damage.

Whether this is an actual sneak attack (requiring CA) is beside the point. Thus, in practice, whether you have CA or not doesn't matter in practice for the purposes of the Wraithblade - it allows you to deal bonus sneak damage whether you have CA or not. It creates its own set of parameters for when this damage is dealt: critting.

 

[Istar]

Not everyone knows Mouseferatu; the author of the weapon actually weighed in at post #6, explaining that no, you don't need Combat Advantage. Otherwise I'd agree that you had an equally valid interpretation of how the damn thing works.

Ah that explains the cheese

 

[Istar]

Not exactly sure what you are discussing, but just for the record:

1) yes, the weapon does not mention combat advantage.
2) no, it simply allows you to deal bonus sneak attack damage, not involving the sneak attack rogue class feature, only its damage.

Whether this is an actual sneak attack (requiring CA) is beside the point. Thus, in practice, whether you have CA or not doesn't matter in practice for the purposes of the Wraithblade - it allows you to deal bonus sneak damage whether you have CA or not. It creates its own set of parameters for when this damage is dealt: critting.

Great, well said, I like it.

Okay a few other questions:
1. War Rings - you can use 2, seems to cheesy ?
2. For a Twin Striking Dagger throwing Rogue - what arm slot bracers (Iron Armbands of Power are mellee only you see) would provide the best damage ?

 

[Regicide]

2) no, it simply allows you to deal bonus sneak attack damage, not involving the sneak attack rogue class feature, only its damage.

No. It allows you to apply your sneak attack damage, not damage equal to your sneak attack. Sneak attack damage requires CA. This power does not override that as it is written, neither explicitly, or on my reading implicitly, it simply overrides the multiple uses per round for the attack with the requirement of the attack being a crit.

Your interpretation also allows you to "apply it twice" since you're basically saying that despite it being sneak attack damage it really isn't, so you can still sneak attack the target you just critted and did extra sneak attack damage to! Maybe that was intended as well.

 

[Jarrod]

Don't forget the other direction. The crit doesn't count as a use of sneak attack, so you can also crit *first* and then attack again. So you also have the classic Order of the Stick situation:

Rogue: *stabbity* Crit!
Monster: Ow!
Rogue: Heck, I'll do that again... Action point! Sneak attack!
Monster: Really ow!