Wrath of the Gods + Multiple Paladins = Broke?

[Spinachcat]

Wrath of the Gods
Paladin Utility 6
Daily / Divine
Minor Action
Close Burst 1
Targets: You and each ally in burst
Effect: The targets add your Charisma modifier to damage rolls until the end of the encounter

It does NOT say "Power Bonus" whereas many others do say Power Bonus, so this appears to be an untyped bonus. Thus if you have a group of 6 Paladins, they could use this prayer to each get +36 damage for the whole encounter.

Some may say there won't be any groups of 6 Paladins, but I run convention tournaments so this is real possibility of the players feel that this is a legal combo. In a three encounter game, they could get +12 damage thru every encounter which is insane.

Is this right?

 

[generalhenry]

even worse, 6 character multiclassed into paladin.

yep, broken as written.


fix is easy, have it not stack with it self.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I don't see the problme... that uses a daily Utility 6 power... and if you are heroic level max +6 per. great all of them are the likeable types...having wasted points on an 18 cha then had a race +2 and put 2 of 4 level ups in it...


in a three encounter game I was min maxing there are already better combos... but MAYBE I would have 3 people with it with +3 cha and each encounter use one... but I mean really still not that bad. The much bigger problme is balancing ANY Daily power when you go in knowing ahead 3 encounters only...

 

[Pickles JG]

I thought that power bonuses & also bonuses from the same source did not stack? I would treat this as the same source. Of course I maybe getting mixed up with Warmachine or 3.5

 

[Plane Sailing]

It seems a no-brainer decision to me that anything gained from the use of a power is automatically a 'power bonus' unless it expressly says something to the contrary.

i.e. no stacking

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

It seems a no-brainer decision to me that anything gained from the use of a power is automatically a 'power bonus' unless it expressly says something to the contrary.

i.e. no stacking

I don't agree that all powers have an understood "power bonus," unless it's explicitly stated in the book somewhere (and I admit it could be and I haven't seen it, though that seems ill-advised to me). If a Paladin has a power that adds +5 damage to all party members and then the warlord gives someone else a power that adds +3 damage to attacks, they stack unless they have the same bonus type.

However, I think it's pretty fair to say that WotG comes from the same source and should not stack with itself.

 

[Spinachcat]

PHB 275 says "untyped" bonuses stack. We have many powers that say "power bonus" in the text. Wrath of the Gods (like many others) does not say anything and thus assumed to be "untyped"

Personally, I wish WotC had explicitly labeled all all "untyped" as "stackable" so these would be easier to figure out.


BTW, what better combos are there for a 3 encounter game? My GM crew is hosting an all combat tourney convention event of 3 encounters so we are testing out combos. We are doing 8th level characters with PHB only.

 

[Eric D]

In the Players Handbook, Page 275 clearly states that untyped bonuses do stack with other bonuses including other untyped bonuses. The vast majority of powers in the game explicity use the words "power bonus" and so these clearly should not stack. However, there are a significant number of powers that do not use the words "power bonus" so I have to conclude that any number of powers that don't have the words "power bonus" are untyped and can stack with each other.

At a quick glance here are some of the Paladin Powers that have the words "power bonus" and therefore clearly would not stack with other Powers (Paladin or whatever) that also have the words "power bonus". Shielding Smite, Sacred Circle, Hallowed Circle, Fortifying Smite, and Hand of the Gods.

And here are some Powers that don't use the words "power bonus" and therefore seem to be untyped and able to stack. Divine Mettle, Divine Strength, Wrath of the Gods, and Cleansing Spirit.

In fact, Divine Stength seems like the perfect proof for this argument. If all Powers granted a "power bonus" and you use Divine Strength and then Holy Strike you would only get your Strength modifier added once as they are both "power bonuses" and don't stack. I think it is pretty clear that the idea of Divine Strength is that you can add it to an attack Power.

All that being said, for practical purposes I don't think that the game should allow the exact same power to stack with other instances of it, so Wrath of the Gods can stack with other untyped bonuses as well as one "power bonus" but not multiple instances of itself.

 

[Starfox]

All that being said, for practical purposes I don't think that the game should allow the exact same power to stack with other instances of it, so Wrath of the Gods can stack with other untyped bonuses as well as one "power bonus" but not multiple instances of itself.

Without having any real opinion in the debate, I just wanted to note that this is how it worked in 3.5; bonuses from the same source or the same type did not stack. The game designers might very well have had that in the back of their heads as they wrote this power.

In most cases, modifiers to a given check or roll stack (combine for a cumulative effect) if they come from different sources and have different types (or no type at all), but do not stack if they have the same type or come from the same source (such as the same spell cast twice in succession). If the modifiers to a particular roll do not stack, only the best bonus and worst penalty applies. Dodge bonuses and circumstance bonuses however, do stack with one another unless otherwise specified.

 

[DracoSuave]

Abilities with the same name stack with themselves. Just ask a star pact warlock about how their triggered-on-0-hp ability does it.