herrozerro
First Post
I cant XP you(gotta spread more love around) but this bears repeating. in addition: Mature and M for mature are two totally different things.
Write this game for adults
- Thread starter Blackwarder
- Start date
I cant XP you(gotta spread more love around) but this bears repeating. in addition: Mature and M for mature are two totally different things.
Blackwarder
Adventurer
At last I can post again!
I don't know wether to laugh and cry... What ever I'll end up doing I learned a valuable lesson today, you can actually high jack your own thread in your own opening post!! Amazing but true.
And to add insult to injury I'm not sure if my edit of the OP went through (edit it didn't but I added it now) or not because it seems like the forum itself reacted badly to it and now refuse to let me enter so I'm writing this up in pages hopefully so I'll be able to post this later tonight (or tomorrow morning) once all the guys with the torches and pitchforks grow bored and leave (fat chance though
).
So to the point, my "partially clothed females FTW" was a jest on the fact that 2e PHB had some of those, nothing more. Sometimes I forget though, that this being on-line, where we don't have the advantage of the instant feedback we have in face-to-face conversations, things that seems obvious to me as I write them seem like a different thing to the folks that read them
@ FinalSonicX, it's partially that it's more like a manual rather than a feeling it's one guy telling another about a cool game he's playing but it's mainly things like:
"play a dragonborn if you want...
to look like a dragon.
to breath fire.
Etc etc..."
I mean look like a dragon? What am I? Twelve?
That's one example but it's a vibe I get through reading the entire book, I never noticed this until I sat with some friends who never played 4e and had to go over the books for the first time in years (I usually just use the CB).
Warder
I don't know wether to laugh and cry... What ever I'll end up doing I learned a valuable lesson today, you can actually high jack your own thread in your own opening post!! Amazing but true.
And to add insult to injury I'm not sure if my edit of the OP went through (edit it didn't but I added it now) or not because it seems like the forum itself reacted badly to it and now refuse to let me enter so I'm writing this up in pages hopefully so I'll be able to post this later tonight (or tomorrow morning) once all the guys with the torches and pitchforks grow bored and leave (fat chance though
).So to the point, my "partially clothed females FTW" was a jest on the fact that 2e PHB had some of those, nothing more. Sometimes I forget though, that this being on-line, where we don't have the advantage of the instant feedback we have in face-to-face conversations, things that seems obvious to me as I write them seem like a different thing to the folks that read them
@ FinalSonicX, it's partially that it's more like a manual rather than a feeling it's one guy telling another about a cool game he's playing but it's mainly things like:
"play a dragonborn if you want...
to look like a dragon.
to breath fire.
Etc etc..."
I mean look like a dragon? What am I? Twelve?
That's one example but it's a vibe I get through reading the entire book, I never noticed this until I sat with some friends who never played 4e and had to go over the books for the first time in years (I usually just use the CB).
Warder
Last edited:
Skyscraper
Adventurer
Jerry Seinfeld, when asked how he managed to make his TV show so popular for years, said: "I start on the assumption that my audience is intelligent."
I understand what you mean and somewhat agree. Using language that speaks to an intelligent reader is perhaps the key. (I'm not sure that maturity has anything to do with it.)
I understand what you mean and somewhat agree. Using language that speaks to an intelligent reader is perhaps the key. (I'm not sure that maturity has anything to do with it.)
I too wish that the next D&D can be mature. Not hard core adult, mind you, just be written in a way that 'talks' right to people.
There has been a huge...huge push over the past couple of years (since I was a kid) to make everything kid friendlily...and worse to make everything baby friendly(and worse crazy parent friendly). As a kid I was exposed to lots of mature stuff for the simple reason that there was little kids stuff. And even more so, lots of kids stuff dealt with quite complex and mature topics. But by the time I was in high school there was a huge shift for kids stuff. Anything made for kids needed to be good and pure and near perfect as not to offend anyone. And it quickly went to the extreme and has stayed there.
I started playing 1E as a kid, and the game was quite hard to understand and learn. But even as a kid, I loved it. I loved the challenge of 'not quite' understanding a concept of the game, and then having to do research and/or figure it out. I liked the fact that the game never talked down to me. But there has been a steady slide down hill from that point. As each edition has gotten less and less mature, until you see the climax of 4E, a game written for a whole generation that can't take half a second to type the word 'you'.
A great example of the maturity is negative consequences. 1E/2E were full of them. All sorts of bad side effect could zap a character. But 3E smoothed out all of that so that 'nothing bad happens', and 4E just goes over the top with the near perfect world.
I'd love to see 5E bring back the negative, but doubt that will happen...
There has been a huge...huge push over the past couple of years (since I was a kid) to make everything kid friendlily...and worse to make everything baby friendly(and worse crazy parent friendly). As a kid I was exposed to lots of mature stuff for the simple reason that there was little kids stuff. And even more so, lots of kids stuff dealt with quite complex and mature topics. But by the time I was in high school there was a huge shift for kids stuff. Anything made for kids needed to be good and pure and near perfect as not to offend anyone. And it quickly went to the extreme and has stayed there.
I started playing 1E as a kid, and the game was quite hard to understand and learn. But even as a kid, I loved it. I loved the challenge of 'not quite' understanding a concept of the game, and then having to do research and/or figure it out. I liked the fact that the game never talked down to me. But there has been a steady slide down hill from that point. As each edition has gotten less and less mature, until you see the climax of 4E, a game written for a whole generation that can't take half a second to type the word 'you'.
A great example of the maturity is negative consequences. 1E/2E were full of them. All sorts of bad side effect could zap a character. But 3E smoothed out all of that so that 'nothing bad happens', and 4E just goes over the top with the near perfect world.
I'd love to see 5E bring back the negative, but doubt that will happen...
trancejeremy
Adventurer
I agree with you OP, but I'm afraid such a thing is no longer possible in today's world. Our culture has dramatically changed over the last 30 years...
That I'll agree with. I read Billy Blue Hat when I was five. I don't need to read it again at the age of 37!
You're right. That stuff is aimed far, far too low.
ExploderWizard
Hero
Exactly. The artwork does not need bewbz to be adult but the writing needs to assume if not maturity, at least an inkling of intelligence in the reader.
When I read my B/X rulebooks at age 10, I didn't get the feeling that the writing was talking down to me. Reading through them again as an adult I still don't feel that way even though the rules are clearly marked for ages 10 and up.
The core 3E texts were dry and somewhat boring to read through (much like a technical manual) but served well enough as references.
The 4E texts made me feel like I was taking a remedial reading class. The target reading level felt about right for 3rd-4th grade. I think that had more to do with turning me off that edition than the mechanics.
So please, ensure these books are written at the adult level. Kids who like these sorts of games will still have no trouble with it and adults can actually enjoy it too. This doesn't mean the rulebooks have to be filled with mature themes or risque artwork at all. Proofread the text. If it sounds like you are teaching a grade schooler how to read then start over.
Blackwarder
Adventurer
I totally agree with the exploding wizard, although I do think that in a book aimed at mature audiance the art shouldn't be filled with kiddie art.
Warder
Warder
