D&D 5E WTF Wizards of the Coast? *RANT* (video link)

[CapnZapp]

The cost of making an app is still underestimated.
During the Codename: Morningstar Kickstarter, Trapdoor Tech revealed they had spent $1.2 million getting the app working and needed $400,000 to finish and add Pathfinder rules.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/trapdoortech/codename-morningstar/posts/108997

That's million dollars over six months to a year. Getting an app out sooner drastically increases the price. Nothing for WotC but a lot for D&D and its team, especially since they'd need to hire all new staff and buy all new hardware.
But even then, it's spending a million dollars (plus) for the *chance* to maybe make a profit eventually.

Have you even ONCE considered these guys might be clowns, or perhaps bilking clueless managers for money?

You can make a no-frills app for a fraction of that cost. Fact.

You can make a Web page for even less.

Making an Excel sheet with all the data and functionality us fans need cost even less.

 

[Umbran]

The tenor of this thread is NOT GOOD.

The OP was indicated as a "RANT". Not a solidly reasoned position, but an emotional, angry response. As such, it doesn't really deserve much logical analysis.

And, what we really don't need is a bunch of people on the internet casting aspersions on people they've never met, and never done direct business with. I recognize folks are unhappy, but there's a difference between venting and getting into a vortex of discontent.

Please step away from the vortex.

 

[Blue]

When I say "making a digital character sheet is easy", that's not offered as opinion. That's a fact.

I will reiterate what I said earlier and you just ignored. Ask the PCGen people if it's easy. Making something that's expandable for who knows what down the line so you don't have to rebuild it each time something new comes out is not easy. This "fact" you talk about is nothing of the sort.

We can also talk about all of the challenges with the 4e character builder, both the original and the online versions.

Wizards do NOT get way with the "boo hoo we're too small to give you useful tools" no matter how many useful tools pop up to try to defend them.

*sigh* And they tried. But they tried it for 5e through licensing it to companies that had experience developing software.

And we have some successes, like Fantasy Grounds. We also have 3rd parties that couldn't hold up their end like Codename: Morningstar. Luckily they didn't do that in house or that would have been a lot of budget diverted from making the game.

If you want to defend them, discuss the business side, since there can be many reasons why WotC choose not to have effective digital tools.

Already did, you just ignored it. Again. I talked about when they did just that for 4e and the challenges they faced with being quite late getting out new content from books and features to support them, plus a very long bug list.

If you want me to elaborate more on the business portion of that, there was probably a limited amount of resources from the share of the subscription which lead to a small development team, or perhaps not even full-time work on the character builder as work was also spread across the various tools.

PS. The easiest way to have a full suite of digital players and DM aids would be for WotC to do nothing, and yet I expect fully functional tools to be released within the WEEK.

That is to say "go ahead, Internet, we won't cease and desist you if you make D&D tools available to everybody free of charge"

Technically, it's easy. Making money out of it is an entirely different matter

Sure, they could have let the internet do what they want. But it seems they wanted to both control and monitize their IP and they licensed it out instead. Considering that it took over a year for the 5eSRD to make it though business & legal, I don't think that was an option from up the corporate chain.

 

[Jester David]

Have you even ONCE considered these guys might be clowns, or perhaps bilking clueless managers for money?

Irrelevant.
Because if they are, WotC could hire the same people and the cost will be the same.
And if it was they're now pretty much out of work and have little to show except a black mark on their resume & portfolio for it rather than a steady job. If it was a scam it didn't work out in the long term.

You can make a no-frills app for a fraction of that cost. Fact.

Out of curiosity, are you a programmer? How many apps have you designed?

If none, can you provide a link to offer a citation for your claim?

You can make a Web page for even less.

Provided there's little unique code you can get a website for a few thousand dollars. A really good site can cost ten times that, since it's as much art as programming.
However, if the site needs to serve as a character builder/digital tool then it's functionally the same amount of programming as making an app. It will require the unique code, which takes time.

Making an Excel sheet with all the data and functionality us fans need cost even less.

And those probably already exist. Why does WotC need to provide that?
People don't want a terrible looking website or a HeroForge style Excel sheet. Heck, even a program like HeroLabs gets sighed at because of the UI.
They want a beautiful looking app with a lovely graphical interface. And that costs money.
And they want something that is self-contained rather than requiring Excel to run, as no everyone has Microsoft Office, and making that foundational programming is a lot of work.

 

[cmad1977]

I repeat...
/facepalm

 

[Jester David]

When I say "making a digital character sheet is easy", that's not offered as opinion. That's a fact.

Those already exit:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/rpgdownloads.php?categoryid=23
https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/2b6kxu/just_made_an_excel_character_sheet_for_5e_xpost/
https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/2fez0f/5e_character_sheet_using_excel/

Why does WotC need to provide one? What will slapping the official logo provide that hours of fan support cannot?
(Of course, they already have a form fillable digital character sheet.)

Wizards do NOT get way with the "boo hoo we're too small to give you useful tools" no matter how many useful tools pop up to try to defend them.

True, WotC is not. They're huge.

The D&D team at WotC is small. Digital tools aren't possible, not without doubling the size of the staff.
Or licencing the tools out. Which they tried to do but failed.

The D&D RPG team continues to exist so long as they make more money than they lose and continue to pump out IP that might be turned into movies and other money makers. But WotC is not going to give the team much more staff or money. Paizo is probably in a better place to make digital tools since they can leverage the entire company to the task (and even they've failed at that, since the Pathfinder Virtual Table has been quietly killed).

If you want to defend them, discuss the business side, since there can be many reasons why WotC choose not to have effective digital tools.

They didn't choose not to. They licensed the rights, planning on having tools out shortly after launch, and the licencee company did a crap job. That's on Trapdoor, not WotC.

WotC works with the people that approach them; if quality people don't approach them, then there's nothing WotC can do.

WotC says their terms, and anyone who wants to sign on the dotted line can. But most companies just don't want to pay the asked fee or do what WotC expects, so we have no tools. Which is why Lone Wolf hasn't managed to get an official licence for HeroLabs. Coming to the deal is tricky (especially since they're likely dealing with WotC suits who give zero f***s about D&D, let alone its fans).

PS. The easiest way to have a full suite of digital players and DM aids would be for WotC to do nothing, and yet I expect fully functional tools to be released within the WEEK.

That is to say "go ahead, Internet, we won't cease and desist you if you make D&D tools available to everybody free of charge"

Technically, it's easy. Making money out of it is an entirely different matter.

They're a business. They're sole reason for existing is to make money. They're not here to make friends. They're not here to make us happy. They're a publicly traded company out to make money for themselves and their shareholders.
If a corporation doesn't make money, it opens itself up to being sued by its shareholders.

Letting anyone make an app means WotC would be giving away the full text of the PHB (which they declined to do with the SRD) and is giving away any potential licensing fees accrued from possible app makers.
That's not going to happen. Not any more than WotC releasing free PDFs of the entire Player's Handbook.


But, of course, there ARE digital tools. You can get Fantasy Grounds. And HeroLabs since the SRD was out. One of those is even official. Why does WotC - a company that isn't a software company - required to do this in-house?

 

[Guest 6801328]

I really love the Patrick O'Brian novels, and therefore I think it is a disgraceful dereliction of duty that the publisher hasn't released a suite of digital tools to enhance my enjoyment of my books. Where are the 3D models of the ships? I mean, christ, how easy is it to create a 3D model these days? Where's the "Square Rigged Sailing Simulator"? Where are the interactive maps of the big battles? Where's the recipe for Spotted Dick? (And don't you dare point me to 3rd party supplements for that recipe...it has to be from the publisher or I won't be satisfied.)

Seriously, the publishers are clearly failing to capitalize on a business opportunity and should be fired.

Maybe I should make a video about this.

 

[cmad1977]

I really love the Patrick O'Brian novels, and therefore I think it is a disgraceful dereliction of duty that the publisher hasn't released a suite of digital tools to enhance my enjoyment of my books. Where are the 3D models of the ships? I mean, christ, how easy is it to create a 3D model these days? Where's the "Square Rigged Sailing Simulator"? Where are the interactive maps of the big battles? Where's the recipe for Spotted Dick? (And don't you dare point me to 3rd party supplements for that recipe...it has to be from the publisher or I won't be satisfied.)

Seriously, the publishers are clearly failing to capitalize on a business opportunity and should be fired.

Maybe I should make a video about this.

Why... That is quite the prodigious statement sir. Shall we to the forcastle for a game of whist??

 

[Shasarak]

I really love the Patrick O'Brian novels, and therefore I think it is a disgraceful dereliction of duty that the publisher hasn't released a suite of digital tools to enhance my enjoyment of my books. Where are the 3D models of the ships? I mean, christ, how easy is it to create a 3D model these days? Where's the "Square Rigged Sailing Simulator"? Where are the interactive maps of the big battles? Where's the recipe for Spotted Dick? (And don't you dare point me to 3rd party supplements for that recipe...it has to be from the publisher or I won't be satisfied.)

Seriously, the publishers are clearly failing to capitalize on a business opportunity and should be fired.

**cough**Ed Greenwood**cough**

Yeah, a group of people supporting all aspects of a novel, no one would ever do that

 

[Guest 6801328]

**cough**Ed Greenwood**cough**

Yeah, a group of people supporting all aspects of a novel, no one would ever do that

Somehow the point of this went completely past me. Or my point went past you, perhaps. We passed right by each other. How's that?