D&D 5E Xanathar's and Counterspell

[Caliban]

I suppose some people might feel that a sniper having a spotter is a bit clunky too. Doesn't mean it's not a thing. A person can only do so many things in the space of a second or two.

And if a D&D spellcaster was like a sniper, that would be reasonable. But they aren't.

The D&D spellcaster has always been more like a gunslinger (to continue with your theme) - self-contained and ready to go off at the drop of a hat.

Requiring teamwork to identify and then counter a spell wouldn't be a problem if it had been part of the game from the beginning. Trying to tack on something like this in a supplement, years after the game has been released just seems like adding extra complication for no real benefit. (Unless you count annoying the player of the spellcaster as a benefit...)

 

[LapBandit]

Removing the risk of Counterspell not being high enough level and forcing a spellcasting stat DC check is part of the spell. People want to have their cake and eat it too. You don't get to know what the spell is at my table. You have to guess/gamble.

 

[lkj]

I haven't seen the rule. But am I understanding right that with this alternate rule you can still counterspell, even if you don't know what the spell is. But if you want to know what the spell is (and ensure you are not wasting a spell slot) then someone needs to identify it first?

AD

 

[Mort]

Removing the risk of Counterspell not being high enough level and forcing a spellcasting stat DC check is part of the spell. People want to have their cake and eat it too. You don't get to know what the spell is at my table. You have to guess/gamble.

Nothing wrong with that approach as long as your up front about it.

Quick question though. Do you make sure NPCs have the same hurdle? As in do players say "I'm casting a spell..." pause a second and if you don't say "npc attempts to counterspell with X level slot" then move on to the spell name which is then too late to counterspell?

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[Caliban]

Removing the risk of Counterspell not being high enough level and forcing a spellcasting stat DC check is part of the spell. People want to have their cake and eat it too. You don't get to know what the spell is at my table. You have to guess/gamble.

So do your players get to make you guess before your NPC's casters counterspell them?

 

[Warmaster Horus]

Removing the risk of Counterspell not being high enough level and forcing a spellcasting stat DC check is part of the spell. People want to have their cake and eat it too. You don't get to know what the spell is at my table. You have to guess/gamble.

Okay. Do you have NPCs use Counterspell? Do you know what the player has said they're casting before you have the NPC do theirs?

ETA - I guess three of us had this reaction at the same time!

 

[Li Shenron]

ETA - I guess three of us had this reaction at the same time!

You should have coordinated better.... one of you should have identified the post, and the other counter it!

 

[Fanaelialae]

And if a D&D spellcaster was like a sniper, that would be reasonable. But they aren't.

The D&D spellcaster has always been more like a gunslinger (to continue with your theme) - self-contained and ready to go off at the drop of a hat.

Requiring teamwork to identify and then counter a spell wouldn't be a problem if it had been part of the game from the beginning. Trying to tack on something like this in a supplement, years after the game has been released just seems like adding extra complication for no real benefit. (Unless you count annoying the player of the spellcaster as a benefit...)

In fairness, I'm fairly certain that there was no counterspelling at the beginning of the game. This is just going off of memory, but I think the 2e supplement Spells and Magic may have been the first instance of counterspelling rules in the books.

Moreover, it was the DM's prerogative to decide whether or not to tell the players what spell was cast, since there were no rules for that either. Eventually they did add proficiencies, some of which I believe could be used to identify spells akin to what Arcana does now.

 

[Caliban]

In fairness, I'm fairly certain that there was no counterspelling at the beginning of the game. This is just going off of memory, but I think the 2e supplement Spells and Magic may have been the first instance of counterspelling rules in the books.

Moreover, it was the DM's prerogative to decide whether or not to tell the players what spell was cast, since there were no rules for that either. Eventually they did add proficiencies, some of which I believe could be used to identify spells akin to what Arcana does now.

When I said "the beginning of the game" I was referring to 5e, not previous editions. You know, since we were talking about counterspelling in 5e...

 

[Warmaster Horus]

As long as we're on the subject, I had a DM prevent me from using a Rod of Absorption to negate a Counterspell recently. He insisted that Counterspell targets a spell and not the caster (and the Rod of Absorption only absorbs spells targetting its' bearer). I said that it says you attempt to interrupt a creature, which has a very specific meaning in D&D, which suggests you are targetting the caster and not the spell.

"You attempt to interrupt a creature in the process of casting a spell. If the creature is casting a spell of 3rd level or lower, its spell fails and has no effect."

In any case I found a Crawford tweet saying that I was right, Counterspell targets a creature casting the spell and not the spell itself.