XBox 360 Elite question

[Banshee16]

I've been trying to find out about the 360 Elite, and have found conflicting information.

Microsoft claims that the Elite has HDMI ports for output, and thus people can play their games at 1080p instead of 720p (regular XBox). That sounds all cool, but a coworker of mine who's pretty technical claims that it's misleading.

He's a PS3 fan, and claims that the Elite has HDMI output, but that it *only* works for playing movies, and only works if you buy the HD DVD drive that comes extra. He said that the DVD drive of the Elite itself is only regular DVD, and consequently can't read data for transmission via 1080p. Because the system plays games through the main drive, and not the HDDVD drive, he claimed that Microsoft is being deceptive, and you can't actually play games at 1080p.

Is this guy biased or incorrect, or is this correct?

Banshee

 

[drothgery]

I've been trying to find out about the 360 Elite, and have found conflicting information.

Microsoft claims that the Elite has HDMI ports for output, and thus people can play their games at 1080p instead of 720p (regular XBox). That sounds all cool, but a coworker of mine who's pretty technical claims that it's misleading.

He's a PS3 fan, and claims that the Elite has HDMI output, but that it *only* works for playing movies, and only works if you buy the HD DVD drive that comes extra. He said that the DVD drive of the Elite itself is only regular DVD, and consequently can't read data for transmission via 1080p. Because the system plays games through the main drive, and not the HDDVD drive, he claimed that Microsoft is being deceptive, and you can't actually play games at 1080p.

Is this guy biased or incorrect, or is this correct?

Banshee

He's incorrect, and his reasoning is wildly wrong. The nugget of truth in there is that most Xbox 360 games don't support 1080p, though this is also true of most PS3 games. Neither the Xbox 360 nor the PS3 can really handle graphically complicated games at 1080p at a decent frame rate.

But using DVD media has nothing to do with that. Games are computer programs; they support whatever resolutions the game developers decided to support (all Xbox 360 games must support SD resolutions and 1080i, and 720p; 1080p is optional).

Heck, since DVD movies are just data files, it's possible to put a (short) 1080p movie on a DVD (and you can actually fit an average-length movie encoded at 720p with a high-compression codec like VC-1 or MPEG4 on a DVD).

It's also worth noting that if your HDTV supports it, any Xbox 360 supports 1080p over component cables and over VGA cables.

 

[Rackhir]

I've been trying to find out about the 360 Elite, and have found conflicting information.

Microsoft claims that the Elite has HDMI ports for output, and thus people can play their games at 1080p instead of 720p (regular XBox). That sounds all cool, but a coworker of mine who's pretty technical claims that it's misleading.

He's a PS3 fan, and claims that the Elite has HDMI output, but that it *only* works for playing movies, and only works if you buy the HD DVD drive that comes extra. He said that the DVD drive of the Elite itself is only regular DVD, and consequently can't read data for transmission via 1080p. Because the system plays games through the main drive, and not the HDDVD drive, he claimed that Microsoft is being deceptive, and you can't actually play games at 1080p.

Well a DVD doesn't contain information at a 1080p resolution (technically the resolution is something different, but its close enough). So while the 360 might be able to output a 1080p signal while playing back a DVD, you aren't getting 1080p quality. Currently the 360 can't upscale the picture (which is of limited benefit in any case).

As far as games goes there really isn't that much of a difference between 720p and 1080p, even if you have an absolutely huge TV. The ability to do 1080p is really more of a marketing point than anything else. It's like having a higher clockspeed on a CPU, it doesn't necessarily make things better, but it sounds like it should mean it HAS to be better to people who don't know anything. The 360 is definitely capable of using the hdmi output for games, so that at least is incorrect. The 360 is capable of outputing 1080p via the older component or vga connections, but some TVs won't accept a 1080p signal except via an HDMI connection.

Basically, what HDMI really gets you is a simpler, slightly higher quality connection, that can carry both audio and video signals in a single cable (though the 360 doesn't support all the audio formats over the HDMI connection).

Here's a pretty good review of the Xbox 360 Elite.

The HDMI output is a welcome addition, as it provides a single cable solution--digital audio and high-def video--for connecting to HDTVs and A/V receivers. Whereas the previous Xbox 360 could output HD video up to 1080p resolution via component (or optional VGA adapter), far more HDTVs actually accept that highest of resolutions via the HDMI input. The downside is that Microsoft seems to have opted for something less than the HDMI version 1.3 found on the PlayStation 3. That means that any movies played on the optional HD DVD add-on will be limited to standard Dolby Digital soundtracks, not the higher resolution Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby True HD, or DTS-HD Master Audio. On the bright side, Microsoft does include the HDMI cable in the box, unlike the PS3 and the Apple TV.

http://reviews.cnet.com/consoles/microsoft-xbox-360-elite/4505-10109_7-32390552.html#more

 

[TwistedBishop]

It's a simple situation.

Games have different restrictions than movies.

Games will play at 1080p over component.

Movies (due to antipiracy measures) require a digital connection (HDMI) to display the HD resolutions (720p and 1080p).

 

[ThirdWizard]

Also note that XBox games will list their resolution on the back of the box. Every game I own at least lists 1080i, and Lost Planet lists 1080p.

 

[Banshee16]

Ok....

So, I brought some of these points back to this individual who responded by saying that neither the XBox 360 or Elite are "natively" 1080p. That they just upsample, and that composite and VGA cables cannot be used to connect to a TV for 1080p, and that the best you can get is 1080i.

This guy's a PS3 fanatic, so I'm thinking that he's seeing things through Sony-tinted glasses, but if anyone's got a good knowledge of the matter, or knows where to find the info, a good explanation would be appreciated.

Banshee

 

[Rackhir]

Ok....

So, I brought some of these points back to this individual who responded by saying that neither the XBox 360 or Elite are "natively" 1080p. That they just upsample, and that composite and VGA cables cannot be used to connect to a TV for 1080p, and that the best you can get is 1080i.

This guy's a PS3 fanatic, so I'm thinking that he's seeing things through Sony-tinted glasses, but if anyone's got a good knowledge of the matter, or knows where to find the info, a good explanation would be appreciated.

Banshee

Thinking back on your original post. I think he's getting the 360 elite confused with the 360+HD-DVD drive, since his information was correct for that combination.

Look buying a game console really comes down to one thing and one thing only.

Does it have the games you want to play.

You can argue about obscure technical specs until you are blue in the face, but it's ultimately all meaningless. The game's the thing to missquote Shakespear. A sucky stupid game which punches all the technological check marks is still a sucky stupid game. So don't worry about the technical specs and look at the games.

Now of course Microsoft IS evil, but that's another consideration.

 

[drothgery]

Ok....

So, I brought some of these points back to this individual who responded by saying that neither the XBox 360 or Elite are "natively" 1080p. That they just upsample, and that composite and VGA cables cannot be used to connect to a TV for 1080p, and that the best you can get is 1080i.

He's just wrong there. There's nothing that keeps the 360 from sending a 1080p signal over component or over VGA (and since no current HD-DVD movies implement HDCP signal downgrading, there's nothing stopping the 360 HD-DVD player from sending an HD-DVD movie at 1080p over component or VGA if it was encoded at 1080p to start with).

The 360 was designed to play most games well at 720p or 1080i (and in fact Microsoft requires that all 360 games support 720p), and can handle less graphically complex games at 1080p. Games can support 1080p if the developer chooses to.

This is the exact same situation that exists for the PS3. Try and play a graphically complex game at 1920 x 1080 on a PC -- no matter how high-end -- with a GeForce 7900 card (i.e. essentially the same video card that's in a PS3) and you'll see why.

 

[Banshee16]

Thanks for the clarifications folks. This is somewhat of a technical discussion. These are technical folks I'm talking with, but I really just wanted to end the whole parade of "XBox 360 sucks, it doesn't have 1080p" that I'm listening to day in and day out at the office, because I'm pretty confident it's incorrect.

Rackir was right...it does depend on what games you want to play. That's why I chose the 360. I'm not a huge PS fan, because I find a lot of the games are Japanese-style console fare...especially with respect to RPGs etc. With the original XBox, I got it because I wanted Jade Empire, Halo, and Ninja Gaiden, as well as Knights of the Old Republic. I got the 360 partly out of brand recognition, and partly because with the XBox, I ended up getting a lot of other games that I also enjoyed...Crimson Skies, Halo 2, Forza, and others.

I have had the 360 for 6 months now, and have definitely enjoyed it. There are lots of games I'm looking forward to in the next several months....so it's not a reasoning behind a purchase at this point. My decision's made.

What the guy was saying just didn't sound right..

Banshee

 

[Rackhir]

Thanks for the clarifications folks. This is somewhat of a technical discussion. These are technical folks I'm talking with, but I really just wanted to end the whole parade of "XBox 360 sucks, it doesn't have 1080p" that I'm listening to day in and day out at the office, because I'm pretty confident it's incorrect.

What the guy was saying just didn't sound right..

Banshee

To clarify, what you posted in the original post IS correct, but not for the 360 elite. It's the 360+hd-dvd combination, that has those limitation. The HD-DVD drive has an HDMI output and it can't be used when playing games, it's only for playing back HD-DVD movies. The HDMI port on the Elite can be used for outputting the signal from a game.