XBox 360 Elite

[drothgery]

I would like to point out, if anyone cares, that the PS3 is a beautiful piece of hardware. Not only does it have power in spades (power that would cost you a freaking fortune if you were to try and build a similar power-level computer)...

Sigh. The PS3 is not significantly more powerful than the 360. It's got a Blu-Ray player and integrated WiFi, which may be nice. But when it comes to the core elements that affect gameplay -- CPU, GPU, and memory, the two systems are either too close to call or the 360 is better.

CPU - the 360's Xenon CPU has 3 full-function in-order PowerPC cores; the PS3's Cell CPU 1 has 1 full-function in-order PowerPC core and 7 specialized helper cores. It's probably worth noting that the Cell's main core and all three of the Xenon's core are almost identical -- they're products of the same CPU design group at IBM, and manufactured at the same plant. While the Cell's design has more theoretical power in a lot of ways, the things that it's really good at are usually offloaded to graphics cards because they're even better at them. And asymetric multiprocessing (i.e. with two or more completely different CPUs) is a lot harder to program for than symetric multiprocessing (i.e. with two or more identical CPUs). If you want to give a theoretical top-end edge to the PS3 here, it's not a big one.

GPU - The PS3's RSX GPU is essentially very lightly modified GeForce 7800GTX. The 360's Xenos GPU is a halfway house between a Radeon 1900 and a (forthcoming) Radion 2900, with some special features for consoles. Here, most analysts give the 360 a slight edge.

Memory - The PS3 has 256 MB of main memory, and 256 MB of video memory. The 360 has 512 MB of shared memory. Very nearly a wash, but the shared architecture gives the 360 a bit more flexibility, which is somewhat useful.

So as gaming machines, they're pretty much equivalent.

 

[Felon]

Ah, what a great thread you guys are making! Well-done.

 

[IcyCool]

I've just been going off of the specs below, perhaps you have better or more correct information than I have. At any rate, I'm curious as to how successful the 360 Elite will be. Hopefully, it will continue to be successful, and hopefully the PS3 will also be successful. Competition makes for better products, so I'm hoping none of these companies falls by the wayside.

[sblock=PS3 Specs]
CPU
Cell Processor
PowerPC-base Core @3.2GHz
1 VMX vector unit per core
512KB L2 cache
7 x SPE @3.2GHz
7 x 128b 128 SIMD GPRs
7 x 256KB SRAM for SPE
* 1 of 8 SPEs reserved for redundancy
total floating point performance: 218 GFLOPS

GPU
RSX @550MHz
1.8 TFLOPS floating point performance
Full HD (up to 1080p) x 2 channels
Multi-way programmable parallel floating point shader pipelines

Sound
Dolby 5.1ch, DTS, LPCM, etc. (Cell- base processing)
Memory
256MB XDR Main RAM @3.2GHz 256MB GDDR3 VRAM @700MHz

System Bandwidth
Main RAM 25.6GB/s
VRAM 22.4GB/s
RSX 20GB/s (write) + 15GB/s (read)
SB< 2.5GB/s (write) + 2.5GB/s (read)

System Floating Point Performance
2 TFLOPS

Storage
Detachable 2.5" HDD slot x 1

I/O
USB Front x 4, Rear x 2 (USB2.0)
Memory Stick standard/Duo, PRO x 1
SD standard/mini x 1
CompactFlash (Type I, II) x 1

Communication
Ethernet (10BASE-T, 100BASE-TX, 1000BASE-T) x 3 (input x 1 + output x 2)
Wi-Fi IEEE 802.11 b/g
Bluetooth 2.0 (EDR)

Controller
Bluetooth (up to 7)
USB 2.0 (wired)
Wi-Fi (PSP)
Network (over IP)

AV Output
Screen size: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p
HDMI: HDMI out x 2
Analog: AV MULTI OUT x 1
Digital audio: DIGITAL OUT (OPTICAL) x 1

Disc Media
CD PlayStation CD-ROM, PlayStation 2 CD-ROM, CD-DA, CD-DA (ROM), CD-R, CD-RW, SACD, SACD Hybrid (CD layer), SACD HD, DualDisc, DualDisc (audio side), DualDisc (DVD side)
DVD: PlayStation 2 DVD-ROM, PlayStation 3 DVD-ROM, DVD-Video, DVD-ROM, DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+R, DVD+RW
Blu-ray Disc: PlayStation 3 BD-ROM, BD-Video, BD-ROM, BD-R, BD-RE
[/sblock]

[sblock=Xbox 360 Specs]
Custom IBM PowerPC-based CPU

* Three symmetrical cores running at 3.2 GHz each
* Two hardware threads per core; six hardware threads total
* VMX-128 vector unit per core; three total
* 128 VMX-128 registers per hardware thread
* 1 MB L2 cache

CPU Game Math Performance

* 9.6 billion dot product operations per second

Custom ATI Graphics Processor

* 10 MB of embedded DRAM
* 48-way parallel floating-point dynamically scheduled shader pipelines
* Unified shader architecture

Polygon Performance

* 500 million triangles per second

Pixel Fill Rate

* 16 gigasamples per second fill rate using 4x MSAA

Shader Performance

* 48 billion shader operations per second

Memory

* 512 MB of 700 MHz GDDR3 RAM
* Unified memory architecture

Memory Bandwidth

* 22.4 GB/s memory interface bus bandwidth
* 256 GB/s memory bandwidth to EDRAM
* 21.6 GB/s front-side bus

Overall System Floating-Point Performance

* 1 teraflop

Storage

* Detachable and upgradeable 20-GB hard drive
* 12x dual-layer DVD-ROM
* Memory Unit support starting at 64 MB

I/O

* Support for up to four wireless game controllers
* Three USB 2.0 ports
* Two memory unit slots

Optimized for Online

* Instant, out-of-the-box access to Xbox Live features with broadband service, including Xbox Live Marketplace for downloadable content, gamer profile for digital identity, and voice chat to talk to friends while playing games, watching movies, or listening to music
* Built-in Ethernet port
* Wi-Fi ready: 802.11a, 802.11b, and 802.11g
* Video camera–ready

Digital Media Support

* Support for DVD-Video, DVD-ROM, DVD-R/RW, DVD+R/RW, CD-DA, CD-ROM, CD-R, CD-RW, WMA CD, MP3 CD, JPEG Photo CD
* Ability to stream media from portable music devices, digital cameras, and Windows XP-based PCs
* Ability to rip music to the Xbox 360 Hard Drive
* Custom playlists in every game
* Built-in Media Center Extender for Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005
* Interactive, full-screen 3-D visualizers

High-Definition Game Support

* All games supported at 16:9, 720p, or 1080i, with anti-aliasing
* Standard-definition and high-definition video output supported

Audio

* Multi-channel surround sound output
* Supports 48KHz 16-bit audio
* 320 independent decompression channels
* 32-bit audio processing
* Over 256 audio channels

Physical Specs

* Height: 83 mm
* Width: 309 mm
* Depth: 258 mm
* Weight: 7.7 lbs.

System Orientation

* Stands vertically or horizontally

Customizable Faceplates

* Interchangeable to personalize the console
[/sblock]

Edit - Actually, they do look a lot closer now that I'm looking at it again. I'd still put my money on the PS3 as the better performer, but time and the next generation of games will tell.

 

[Banshee16]

Well, considering the 120 gig hard drive costs what, $180 sold separately, the Elite starts to look like a good valuel.

Still, it's funny, Sony releases an expensive console packed with stuff in it (and uses standard hard drives/peripherials), people hate them for it. MS releases an expensive console with extras that cost even more than Sony's added up, and people love them for it and can't wait to buy it.

Not if you already have the 360....I got mine in January, so it wouldn't make sense to sell it at a loss, in order to turn around and buy a more expensive one.

The difference between MS and Sony is that MS apparently found a price point that is less of a barrier to entry. Sony packed so much into it, and I think maybe as a result, the price has been driven a tad too high for the average person. I remember looking at it, and thinking "$700 for a game console? What are they smoking?".

In any case, the PS3 seems to have fewer titles that I'm interested in....so many of the RPGs that the previous Playstations have seemed to be the Japanese style, which I don't like much in any case. XBox has Jade Empire, Knights of the Old Republic, Morrowind, Oblivion, etc....Mass Effect coming up....those are some of the titles I like.

Banshee

 

[Banshee16]

Sigh. The PS3 is not significantly more powerful than the 360. It's got a Blu-Ray player and integrated WiFi, which may be nice. But when it comes to the core elements that affect gameplay -- CPU, GPU, and memory, the two systems are either too close to call or the 360 is better.

CPU - the 360's Xenon CPU has 3 full-function in-order PowerPC cores; the PS3's Cell CPU 1 has 1 full-function in-order PowerPC core and 7 specialized helper cores. It's probably worth noting that the Cell's main core and all three of the Xenon's core are almost identical -- they're products of the same CPU design group at IBM, and manufactured at the same plant. While the Cell's design has more theoretical power in a lot of ways, the things that it's really good at are usually offloaded to graphics cards because they're even better at them. And asymetric multiprocessing (i.e. with two or more completely different CPUs) is a lot harder to program for than symetric multiprocessing (i.e. with two or more identical CPUs). If you want to give a theoretical top-end edge to the PS3 here, it's not a big one.

GPU - The PS3's RSX GPU is essentially very lightly modified GeForce 7800GTX. The 360's Xenos GPU is a halfway house between a Radeon 1900 and a (forthcoming) Radion 2900, with some special features for consoles. Here, most analysts give the 360 a slight edge.

Memory - The PS3 has 256 MB of main memory, and 256 MB of video memory. The 360 has 512 MB of shared memory. Very nearly a wash, but the shared architecture gives the 360 a bit more flexibility, which is somewhat useful.

So as gaming machines, they're pretty much equivalent.

Thanks for the info....I didn't realize that. I had been hearing a lot about how the PS3 graphics were better....seeing some demos of games like Motorstorm, and then comparing against PGR3, for example, it seemed like the 360 was lagging behind. Maybe it's because the initial crop of games really wasn't maximizing use of the system.

Banshee

 

[Banshee16]

Yeah, that's my next 360 purchase. May is the rumor but it's Bioware so expect to add at least 4-6 months to that. I say late 2007. Although, they can take their sweet time if they want to make it better.

I played it for about 5 hours and it wasn't bad but not as good as KotOR. Then again, I am a huge Star Wars fan. I recall it playing pretty well on the 360, too.

But the 4 I suggested already are the best things out there unless you are a FPS fan. Then there are more options.

There are other cool looking ones coming up as well...

Forza 2
Fable 2
Project Offset (www.projectoffset.com)
Elveon (www.elveon.net)
Two Worlds
Conan Online
Halo 3

Banshee

 

[Felon]

Damn, gotta tell you guys...these things went fast! Sold out everywhere in Atlanta.

 

[Tharkun]

Later this month the XBox 360 Elite will be released. I am seriously considering getting one, although for whatever reason preorders aren't being offered at most online stores. Not at Fry's, Amazon, BestBuy, Target, or Gamestop anyway. EBay vendors are selling them for close to $200 over the MSRP, and Circuity City charges sales tax, so I guess I'll have to sit tight for a while.

Anyone getting one?

No, I'm really not interested in getting an XBox now a Wii on the other hand, I'm interested in that enough to consider getting.

 

[Felon]

I'm not sure I get the appeal of the Wii. The motion-sensitive nunchaku controller seems pretty gimmicky to me. Is there anything else besides that? Some uber game out there for the Wii?

 

[Mallus]

The motion-sensitive nunchaku controller seems pretty gimmicky to me.

It is. But it's also really fun, and it fundamentally changes the experience of playing video games. We were built to move, and it's hard to oversell the kinesthetic kick you get from flailing around with the stupid Wiimote...

Some uber game out there for the Wii?

Could be...