XP awards for fighting same monster twice?

[aboyd]

I have a group that encountered 3 shadows. They turned 2 and gave a beat-down to the other one.

Then an hour later after exploring other rooms, they came back, saw the two turned shadows had returned, and gave them a beat-down.

How do I award XP? A combat with 3 and a combat with 2? A combat with 1 and a combat with 2? Something else?

EDIT: another question. I have a PC that was lowered into a cave. The PC explores the cave and ends up fighting off a bat swarm. He wins, and the swarm disperses out into the night. Meanwhile, unbeknown to him, the rest of the team waiting saw a few individual bats (no longer any CR) flying away from the cave, and they magic missiled as many as they could. Does the XP go to the team?

 

[Starbuck_II]

I have a group that encountered 3 shadows. They turned 2 and gave a beat-down to the other one.

Then an hour later after exploring other rooms, they came back, saw the two turned shadows had returned, and gave them a beat-down.

How do I award XP? A combat with 3 and a combat with 2? A combat with 1 and a combat with 2? Something else?

What was the goal?
You get Exp for overcoming goals.
Most people over look that fact and assume exp comes from combat only.

So if the goal was defeat the shadows: they only did that once.
If the goal was stop shadows from attacking them then 1.5 XP. once for first time and 1/2 for second battle for those two.

 

[akbearfoot]

The xp for the swarm encounter should have been awarded to the whole group, even without the magic missileing....If they were close enough to see some of the bats as they flew away then they were close enough to have helped the person down in the cave if he had been unlucky and started screaming for help. Or, they could have just as easily been the ones who were attacked. They participated in the 'cave exploration' by enabling the explorer to go down in the first place.

Do you often give out single PC xp awards? The fact that they were trying desperately to kill critters that they presumeably knew were no threat suggests something along those lines. I only say 'desperately' because they were using resources to kill essentially harmless stuff while still in a dangerous place. Meaning they probably felt like their xp share was already in jeopardy and were thus grasping at straws so they could get a share too.

I prefer non-exp systems, where the DM/players mutually decide when the PCs level up, that way nobody falls behind and the game can progress according to the DMs or players needs, and there is never a hold up while 1 or 2 people get that last bit to level etc... Barring that sort of a system I recommend splitting almost all xp among the group. Single XP awards encourage greedy role playing, players try to hog the DMs time to get more of the chances for solo exp. Also, it leaves the players who tend to be more shy out in the cold because they are less likely to speak up and fight for air time. Group A goes into a dungeon....all XP from the dungeon gets split among everyone in Group A as long as they are alive and 'in the dungeon'.

 

[ElectricDragon]

As far as the shadows,

I would give full xp for the first encounter (3 shadows overcome). How they were overcome is unimportant; even sneaking past them would call for full xp.

The second time they met was a different encounter and should also warrant full xp (this time for only 2 shadows, though).

It is important to note that D&D does not specify that encountered monsters have to be killed in order to receive xp; they only need to be overcome in whatever way the party can come up with within the limits of the encounter. Sometimes, just talking to a creature is the easiest way to overcome it; most times it requires something more than that.

I also do this for encounters with major villains that get away to fight the party again later. IMHO just because a party met someone once should not make that person worth less xp later unless his powers/abilities/spells/magic items/etc. have been severely expended enough to lower his EL.

For the swarm example, I agree with akbearfoot.

Ciao,
Dave

 

[MichaelK]

Let's imagine I fight a goblin called Bob and think I've killed him. I move on into the dungeon.

Suddenly I'm attacked by Bob, who was actually stable on -9 hit points and got healed by their shaman. Now he's leaping at me from behind, at full health and with full equipment.

That's one scenario. What if I'd actually killed Bob and instead I was attacked by his identical twin brother Cob who uses the same character sheet.

Lets imagine both scenarios play out identically with the same stats, same rolls, same actions etc.

The players wouldn't even be able to tell which scenario was which.

As far as I'm concerned if they face a CR 1 foe and win, then they get the CR 1 experience. The name of the creature with the CR 1 is irrelevant.

 

[Bungus]

As far as the shadows,

I would give full xp for the first encounter (3 shadows overcome). How they were overcome is unimportant; even sneaking past them would call for full xp.

The second time they met was a different encounter and should also warrant full xp (this time for only 2 shadows, though).

I would agree with this interpretation.

 

[Nebten]

I wouldn't give double experience for the shadows. The party used a power to deter the undead for at least 10 rounds. You delayed the problem, not over came it because they returned at a later time. Turn Undead & other fear-like affects just clears the playing field so that you can focus on a smaller number of guys.

If you give double XP as well, look out for abuse. Your party may start to just turn everything then expect to get secondary XP when the enemies return later on in the day.

 

[Dyson Logos]

I wouldn't give double experience for the shadows. The party used a power to deter the undead for at least 10 rounds. You delayed the problem, not over came it because they returned at a later time. Turn Undead & other fear-like affects just clears the playing field so that you can focus on a smaller number of guys.

If you give double XP as well, look out for abuse. Your party may start to just turn everything then expect to get secondary XP when the enemies return later on in the day.

In our experience, the problem isn't the double XP.

It's that if you don't track down and kill the turned undead immediately (ie: in that same encounter), they tend to be waiting for you when you come back, and in the case of intelligent undead, they will be looking for a way to trap you based on what they learned in the first encounter.

One of the more terrifying games we had was after turning a few wraiths early in the dungeon. After that they weren't just out to get us, they were actively getting the /other/ dungeon denizens to get us.

 

[SnowHeart]

I had something like this come up in one of my games and my players howled about how unfair I was (in a friendly and good-natured way) but ultimately did just fine. They were exploring a ruined castle and were attacked by a harpoon spider. Things were not going well and one of the PCs used a last ditch measure by employing Dark Speech to "charm" the spider. Thus, they defeated the spider and were able to pass through the room. I gave them half-xp; they howled; I smiled.

Later they had to leave the castle... they decided to leave the same way they entered, encountered the spider a second time, and killed it. They got full xp.

Thus, they received 1.5 times the xp they normally would for a single creature. The (good-natured) complaining stopped.

By the book, they probably should have received full xp for both encounters, but then you create a loop-hole whereby the party could just keep coming back, charming the spider, go through the room, come back again, and so on. I don't like loop-holes.

 

[MichaelK]

By the book, they probably should have received full xp for both encounters, but then you create a loop-hole whereby the party could just keep coming back, charming the spider, go through the room, come back again, and so on. I don't like loop-holes.

The book really gives you your own discretion for that one. DMG page 37:

"You must decide when a challenge has been overcome. Usually this is simple to do. Did the PCs defeat the enemy in battle? Then they met the challenge and earned experience points. Other times, it can be trickier. Suppose the PCs sneak past the sleeping minotaur to get into the magical vault - did they overcome the minotaur encounter? If their goal was to get into the vault and the minotaur was just a guardian, then the answer is probably yes. It's up to you to make such judgements."

I'd probably give them double myself. But I can understand why you didn't.