YASV (Yet Another Sorcerer Variant)

[Mr Fidgit]

Re: Re: Re: YASV (Yet Another Sorcerer Variant)

as far as I know.

thanks!

i understand what you mean about exp costs.

i guess the biggest difference with redecision is the sorcerer wouldn't always have think of spells in terms of 'which ones won't become useless at higher levels' if they have the chance to change them. i haven't had a chance to play a sorc, but i know i'd never take spells like sleep or color spray, which are limited in effect by hit die.

i think it's a great option!

 

[PeterDonis]

Re: My pov

lack of item creation feats means more exp.

PMFJI, but a quick question, why do you think sorcerers can't take item creation feats?

Also, I think 1 or 2 sorc specific feats wouldn't hurt

I agree.

Peter Donis

 

[Jeph]

Re: Re: My pov

PMFJI

As soon as you learn one internet abbreviation, another just pops up.

 

[Mr Fidgit]

pardon me for jumping in (?)

 

[Technik4]

Well, they certainly can take them. However, its a balance right? I mean, you assume that if you take item creation feats, youll be spending exp and gold, to presumably customize your own items and save gold. So, if a sorceror (who doesn't get bonus feats, for the express purpose of taking item creation feats) does take item creation feats, he's still ahead of any "versatile" wizard as the wizard must maintain more than 2 spells/level to stay versatile.

So:

A) Sorc decides to forgo item creation feats, he doesnt lose exp for making them, and has the gold to stay at the same "power" as an enemy wizard.

B) Sorc spends a feat to make items, in doing so gives up the same amount of exp as a wizard would, but this pushes his gold advantage even higher.

However, this does not take into account the need for sorcerors to buy scrolls to augment their spell repotoire in order to be as "effective".

In conclusion, I think the phb versions are balanced, as long as the power of a pc is based (at least to some significant percent)on his wealth and items.

Technik

 

[Crothian]

B) Sorc spends a feat to make items, in doing so gives up the same amount of exp as a wizard would, but this pushes his gold advantage even higher.

What do you mean by gold advantage?

 

[Technik4]

Well, this is in a purely theoretical sense. A wizard and a sorceror of equal levels have equal amounts of gold. However, in order to have a "fuller" spellbook, the wizard must spend a minimum of 10k (or so) for Boccobs book, and before he amasses the money for that he has probably scribed a few spells from other sourecs into his spell-book. This is all deducted from his "Personal Wealth" and cannot be used to buy magical items.

The sorceror, obviously, has no such gold debt, as it were.

Technik

 

[Emongnome]

I think sorcerers suffer in the item creation feat department not only because he has less feats than wizards, but also the sorcerer has to have the spells required for the items he wishes to create. Not so easy to do when your spell list is limited as it is. Personally, the class is fine, except I prefer some mechanism (I'm working on my own version) to allow them to change spells. There should be some work or penalty involved, but only in a short-term sense. Spellcasters as pretty weak at low levels, and sorcerers should not be totally useless to make sure he has the spells he wants by the time he reaches higher levels. Neither should they suffer for trying to be helpful at lower levels. Basically, I would allow sorcerers to change spells without burning feats. Here's my idea (work in progress):

They can change any spell on their list with these limitations: To do so, ONLY when they advance a level, they choose a number of spells equal to their Cha bonus, except for the highest level spells they can cast. Only one spell per level max can be chosen. The spells they are taking off are removed but the new ones they want are not added until they advance to the next level. This can be done at every level change, but only if the following level change adds a level in sorcerer (or spell-casting PrC that adds a level of spellcaster).

For flavor, I would also prefer a slightly different spell-list, maybe a few spells that only sorcerers can cast, but not much. I like adding skills to their list (esp. Cha-based ones) and the penalty to spellcraft on others watching them. And am I the only one that thought that elves favored class could've been sorcerer?

[edit: added a couple of even more useless comments]

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Re: Re: Re: Re: YASV (Yet Another Sorcerer Variant)

i guess the biggest difference with redecision is the sorcerer wouldn't always have think of spells in terms of 'which ones won't become useless at higher levels' if they have the chance to change them. i haven't had a chance to play a sorc, but i know i'd never take spells like sleep or color spray, which are limited in effect by hit die.

i think it's a great option!

NWN allowed Bards and Sorceres to change their whole spell selection every level-up (nice for a Action-CRPG, but not suitable for P&P), and many DM's let Players change their spells at least occasionally (usually if they're really upset with something). Giving the Sorcerers a class ability to do so (at the cost of other powers) seems right.