Yeenoghu writeup

James Jacobs said:
To think of it another way, if you utilize these stat blocks as powerful off-plane manifestations or avatars (which is how I personally think of them), these magic items are the ones they bring with.
Indeed. Now a CR 19-23 Avatar I can see and makes much more sense in light of the MM's generic demon heirarchy.

I certainly recommend giving the demon lords more gear, tailored to your campaign, as heartially as I recommend advancing their Hit Dice to whatever point works best for you (my preference, as seen in the Demonomicon of Iggwilv articles in Dragon, is to stat them out at the CR 25–32 range).
Cool. But, heh, even that seems a little lowish to me. ;) I think I'd start by doubling their "avatar" CR (38-46). Now you have a beast who might be able hold his throne for a while from the rank and file... :)

Cheers!
 

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Kid Charlemagne said:
So, in the dog-eat-dog world of the Abyss, your first action when faced with a party of adventurers is... run away?

That'll inspire confidence in the minions.

Agreed! Also, it is not difficult to imagine that Yeenoghu might be a wee-bit arrogant. Arrogance might lead any smart being into doing something that's not-so-smart.
 

Land Outcast said:
On Yeenoghu: WTF!!!!!!!! Where are his items?????????? The Abyss. You kill to survive, to eat, to rise in rank, to breath. You kill. And none of Yeenoghu's kills had a pair of Gauntlets of Ogre Power?... this could turn into a rant

Maybe some half fiend great red wyrm came along and robbed poor old Yeenoghu of all his items. Same re wyrm then got really into it and toured the whole abyss, getting impossibly rich by plundering Demon Lords hoardes...
 

Actually, a half-fiend red wyrm is at a major advantage versus the inhabitants of the Abyss: its energy resistances are higher, it's immune to fire unlike most of the tanar'ri (the balor and the palrethee being the only exceptions that spring to mind) and few if any tanar'ri have cold-based attacks against which the red wyrm would take extra damage... after deducing its better-than-a-tanar'ri cold resistance.

Hmmm, on a related note, why do the tanar'ri lords continue to allow balors to be spawned when the the tanar'ri lords only have fire resistance 10? Haven't we yet evolved past chaotic evil = chaotic stupid?
 

For the bull's strength I'd say that given his 24 Int you can just assume he'd have it already cast by the time any adventurers encounter him.

And as for the "orc" comments; I actually view Yeenoghu as the "orc" of the demon lords. Even in 1st edition he was like the weakest of the demon lords. They can't all be super scheming manipulators. Some are plain out brutes, and Yeenoghu fits the bill. He relishes melee and slaughter, sort of like a poor-man's Erythnul (as he isn't really a deity).
 

Haffrung Helleyes said:
I agree about it being tough to run NPCs with very high (20 or higher) INT or WIS..

It would be nice if the books gave some guidelines in this regard to DMs. Actually, guidelines for low INT critters would also be useful, since they tend to be more common.

For example, what's the ramification of being an INT 6 ogre? Does an Ogre move in such a way as to avoid AoO's, and to flank? Is an Ogre smart enough to preferentially attack spellcasters, or to ready an action?

Ken

This is an aside, but I use WIS as "combat cunning" (ie. basic combat know-how), which determines whether a creature provokes unecessary AoOs, readies, flanks, etc. This also allows you to use animals properly, since you can assume a wolf has a good knowledge of wolfpack flanking tactics.

Int is "combat knowledge", and includes such wonderful tidbits as "spellcasters are bad and should be hit with sticks", along with "humans with maces and heavy armor often heal people". A low-level Int 6 ogre probably has no idea that the humans wearing funny hats and robes are dangerous and should be attacked first. A high-level Int 6 ogre -might- know this, depending on how many spellcasters he's fought.
 

Yeenoghu is definitely a scheming manipulator.

A plane of the Abyss existed that was nothing but the rotting corpses of sentients drawn from other layers of the Abyss and the material plane as well. Like falling stars drawn towards a planetoid, the archetype of the sentient corpse drew its kind inward, and the plane fed and grew. In this plane the ghouls, maurezhi, and nabassu thrived. As this improved its status, the layer began to reward the devouring of its corpses, and in this environment one of the scavengers eventually emerged as a ruler. His name is represented as a primal laugh-howl: Yeenoghu. Ultimately, the demon lord was to dominate two layers, the 421st and 422nd: the White Kingdom and the Seeping Woods.

Like the hyaenadons, gnolls were often carrion eaters, and as Yeenoghu's power grew he noted this and determined the entire race would be his. Largely, he's succeeded, offering more power than the Laughing Father of the Hunt could, especially to the often disenfranchised males. With the power of Yeenoghu behind them, many male clerics or adepts have grown to dominate their tribes. The remaining worshippers of Gorellik treat their hyaenadons and dire lions better and eat carrion as a matter of mere convenience instead
of as a sacred imperative as Yeenoghu's followers do, and they tend to be more matriarchal. Where both Powers are revered, Yeenoghu is always more important, since his fading rival lacks the personality to inspire as much as he once did, while for the gnolls the demon prince's moon is waxing or full, still active and interested in mortal affairs.

For the cultists of Yeenoghu, the pursuit of more and more worthy carrion is the most holy act they can pursue. The grisly body parts Yeenoghuans use as trophies are scored with patterns of knife or tooth marks to indicate the corpse's previous status. Important and esepecially strong, intelligent, or charismatic people may be targeted so that they can be slain, buried, and eaten in ceremony, in Yeenoghu's name.

Yeenoghu desires to spread his dominion to all those who consume corpses, thereby cementing a continuous energy loop between himself, his plane, his servants, and cannibalistic necrophages everywhere. If everyone eats corpses, everyone will serve Yeenoghu. This is not yet a true statement; many, even among gnolls and ghouls, eat the occasional moldering corpse without being responsible to the hungering lord in any way. This is why Yeenoghu must have two goals: to encourage the consumption of sentient corpses among those who haven't tried them, and to conquer those who do so already.

Yeenoghu has cults among humans in isolated xenophobic communities, the lairs of strangely inbred families, and the filthy hearts of impoverished cities. Occasionally, as among the ghouls of Nehwon, an elder race of living creatures with transparent flesh, he'll gain dominion over entire city-states. Yeenoghu has cultists among many races with kinship to dogs, crows, vultures, wolves, worms, pigs, and swine. Often, in Yeenoghu-lead societies, the ancient leaders will be transformed into the undead form of ghouls to lead the community in blind hunger long after their reign should have ended. Gnolls and flinds generally reject this because the stench of ghoul or ghast flesh makes them too hungry to follow what they perceive as food, or to do anything but pounce. This creates a gap between Yeenoghu's two
major sets of followers that he has never been able to bridge. Gnolls who become ghouls must leave the clan to avoid being devoured by their former allies. Hungry gnolls will ignore the risk of paralysis for the sake of tasty undead meat.

Temples to Yeenoghu always contain a trophy room, as well as a filthy celler in which corpses can be allowed to age.

With the aid of his servants, Yeenoghu offers power with a price. The price is service to the Devourer of the Departed and an increasing urge to consume the deceased, an act which ultimately increases the power of Yeenoghu's layer of origin. The giggling tempters of the ghoul-king love to increase their victims' association of dead flesh with real rewards.

The demon-prince's method of seducing others into his sphere of influence works in stages. Initially, the Jackal sends a cultist to encourage the vulnerable. Yeenoghu's cult is strongest among the gnolls and flinds, but also exists wherever food is scarce and corpses are common. Yeenoghu seeks first to change his victims' dietary mores, then her habits, creating a
horrible addiction, and finally to use the addiction as leverage to control the addict or to convince the victim to commit evils in order to feed their urge.

Important and reluctant marks may earn a visit from a succubus, incubus, or glabrezu. Yeenoghu's tempter demons aren't particularly interested in sex: they use their charm and persuasion to push their victms toward fouler deeds. Through centuries of experience, they can be quite cunning, not just showing up with a "It's delicious, why don't you try it?" but manipulating events to create a perceived need to join the incubus in its favorite repast. The
succubus or incubus -- whispering demon -- tries to bind its victim with a psychological dependence on the tempter or one of Yeenoghu's cults, so much so that they are willing to do anything, anything to please their psychological center.

"Don't you love me? Do you really, really love me? Why can't you accept the need for this? Our need for this? Jamie doesn't need his body any more, and we need his spiritual strength to survive."

"But we killed him! We killed him and left his body to rot!"

"You killed him, honey. You did it for us."

Yeenoghu uses the lure of carrion to draw prize vrocks to himself, turning them into ghouls in all but name: rotting, rubbery, gibbering, slightly canine corpse-eating vrock armies to do Yeenoghu's will.
 

Imruphel said:
Actually, a half-fiend red wyrm is at a major advantage versus the inhabitants of the Abyss: its energy resistances are higher, it's immune to fire unlike most of the tanar'ri (the balor and the palrethee being the only exceptions that spring to mind) and few if any tanar'ri have cold-based attacks against which the red wyrm would take extra damage... after deducing its better-than-a-tanar'ri cold resistance.

Hmmm, on a related note, why do the tanar'ri lords continue to allow balors to be spawned when the the tanar'ri lords only have fire resistance 10? Haven't we yet evolved past chaotic evil = chaotic stupid?

Lets see. Great Red Wyrm 24d10 (average of 132), DC 40 vs. Yeenoghu Reflex 22 Fire Resistance 10. That makes an overall average breath dmage to Y. of 110 ((132 -10) x 0,9)

It gets even better with a full attack: BaB + 40 + 17str. -10 Power attack = 47 vs. AC 45 of Y. that makes an average of 228hp per round - if the wyrm could align his "weapons". Otherwise it would be 114 hp with DR.

If ole Red as a 19th Lvl. Sorcerer has Dimensional Anchor and breaks Y. Spell Resistance of 31 poor Y. can´t even teleport away and is minced Meat in three rounds of Combat.

And I didn´t even take into account Feats from Draconomicon (clinging Breath anyone) or the Half Fiend Template.

Just had a look at Jubilex. With him it gets even better. old Red just Swoops, has a brath and is away. Reflex 14 and Fire DR 10 and hp 364 is an average 132hp Breath Damage.

Now I wonder why Dragons do not rule the Abyss...

Agreed there are not many great old wyrms out there, but there are infinite layers of the abyss with some layers being infinite themselves. There is very good chance for some big old baddies out there..
 
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The problem here is that he tries to teleport away, but the PC's have dimensional anchor. The party fighter beats the snot out of him while the rest of the party searches through the room.

Besides, in your scenario, a gorup of 20th level characters are not going to have to worry about 95% of those things as they'll have detections, abilities, allies, etc... Heck, the priest could gate in a 40 HD solar to take care of him and sit back smoking a pipe.

gizmo33 said:
It's hard to imagine Yeenoghu sitting in a room waiting for adventurers to smash down the door and start fighting. I would think that an encounter involving Yeenoghu would be a little more complex than what can be handled with a generic tactics write-up - possibly involving terrain, lackeys, subterfuge, etc. all before a final show-down.

For those DMs that must have something for Yeenoghu in a pinch, how about this:
1. teleport away
2. find out who the PCs are
3. kill everyone that they know
4. hire doppelgangers to do evil things in the name of the PCs
5. send some cultists after them
6. set up a false dungeon,
7. divide
8. conquer
9. fight the suriving PC

A dire boar is one thing, but IMO a demon lord probably deserves some more thought and detail - probably best saved for an adventure module or a DM who takes the time to work things out. Anything less and they're just making Yeenoghu a 20th level orc in a throw-away encounter.
 

A'koss said:
This has always been a thorny as a DM. Not only about portraying beings and creatures which are both far wiser and far more intelligent than you are but differentiating between them. How do the tactics of a 42 Int, 39 Wis creature differ from one who "only" has a 24 Int, 22 Wis?

off topic a bit but what I do is create a plan for every mod point. If the mod points are negative, I consider they have no plan (act on instinct [flight/flight]), but will have a plan if given one. So in the above example, I'd try to think of 16 plans for the 42 Int and only 7 for the 24 Int for every given situation.

My biggest problem is when players do something so off the wall that the 24 INT creature is being played without a script. I could (&do) wing it and keep (ing) the flow of the game going, but it is limiting the creature's INT down to my on the fly wit. I try to always have some basics down that the creature would do and in that regard the new stat block is helpful if I hadn't had the time.
 

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