Yet Another Gestaut Post

[Anax]

Just about any combo can be really powerful. I was talking with a friend the other day (we're thinking of having a gestalt campaign) and even though about pure melee mixes.

Any melee+monk gives you the wonderful saving throws and nice immunities. Spellcasters arguably benefit more here, since they're not going to be wearing armor anyway, and have nice spells to buff themselves up.

Any melee+fighter is actually surprisingly powerful. All those class features, *plus* you get the fighter's bonus feats. Sure, stacking those won't give great saves all the time, but having 18 or 19 feats in addition to another class's abilities sure isn't bad.

How about the fighter+rogue, who gets 8+int skills per level, almost one feat per level, and at level 20 has +20 BAB, +10d6 sneak attack damage, good fort and good reflex saves, *and* has the full choice of level 10+ rogue special abilities?

Or the fighter+monk, with saves out to here and +20/+20/+20/+15/+10/+5 attacks for 2d10 damage?

For spellcasting action, I'm torn between mage+monk and mage+barbarian. On the one hand, the monk gives more nice stuff for being unarmored. On the other, a d12 hit die is nothing for a mage to sneeze at.

Paladin+sorcerer is of course a deadly combination.

And of course, there's always the question of multiclassing--allowing both sides to be multiclassed would probably be unreasonable, but what if you allow one side to be multiclassed while the other side must remain constant? (So you could be a fighter+rogue/shadowdancer, or a rogue+fighter/shadowdancer, for example.) That still might be too powerful, but allowing PrCs opens up a whole new can of frightening superpowers.

 

[scott-fs]

Hello All, Been a Lurker for a while. But a friend and me have been haveing a talk about Gestalt characters, and im Curious as to your all's view.

What do you think would be the "best" Gestalt Duo? We play in a Low magic world, with strick Arcane limitations so a wizzard/sorc prob not an option. Theres so Many Duos, and so Many differant takes on it. And its been a rather fun topic between us.

BTW. Best does not really mean the Most powerful per sae, While Survivability and Power is nice, its more important for them to be fun and interesting.

So, Toss your Ideas into the Ring, what you think is a good Gestalt Duo?

In many ways Gestalt characters are a min-maxers wet dream. They give a player the ability to reduce or eliminate any weak points, while maxing out their strengths. Ideally you select two classes which overlap very little, while each complements the others abilities and drawbacks. For instance, combine a class with high hitdice (Fighter) with one with low hitdice (Sorcerer). Combine a high skill point class (Rogue) with low skill point class (Fighter). With that said, here are some combos that could be interesting. Many of these combinations are ones in which I would naturally multiclass between:

Druid/Monk: The Monk is a natural fit with the druid class. The Druid being limited in the armor department gets a nice boost to AC from the Monk's AC boost from Wisdom. Combined with the ability to deal decent damage with unarmed attacks, and druid spells, this character combo can be very effective. The problem with normally multi-classing this combination is the limit on moving away from the Monk Class.

Sorcerer (or Wizard)/Rogue: As mentioned, this can be an interesting combination. The ability to have arcane spells from an arcane class can be very useful to a rogue. In a campaign that I played a rogue, I planned to eventually pursue the Wizard class.

Fighter/Cleric: Effective in combat, as well as having the ability to cast healing spells. In many ways a Paladin on drugs (though the Paladin has a couple of special abilities (immune to fear, poisons, etc), that a normal multiclass between these too would not receive).

Ranger/Bard: Both have abilities that are limited by armor worn. A Bard can wear (I believe) light armor and not have a spell failure chance. Combined with a Rangers combat capabilities, this combo could have interesting potential.

Barbarian/Cleric: I had a player who played this as a normal multi-class option and was fairly decent. Being able to get the best of both at each level would be very good.

Ranger/Sorcerer: Using the Rangers ranged attack progression, and the Sorcerer's spells, the character can be an effective scout.

Fighter/Rogue: The Fighter gives to this character it's martial abilities, while the Rogue gives skills and skill points (and sneak attack).

Combos I wouldn't do:

Sorcerer/Wizard: While they do have alot of spells, this combination has alot of overlap. They're too similar, and don't cover as broad a base as other gestalts.

Paladin/Cleric: Similar to the S/W, this class has overlap, but not enough depth.

Fighter/Wizard (or Sorcerer): This would be an interesting combination, but you'd have to be careful of your character's equipment that you'd wear. Likely you'd be a second line (ranged) fighter, thus you could exchange the Fighter class for the Ranger (as mentioned above). It mostly depends on your role in the group.

Overall there are 53 different class combinations. It'd be interesting to see a document that details each of these class combinations. If I'm tempted, I just might do so.

 

[Kabol]

I always figured Fighter/Monk be a good Combo. Better BAB means More attacks/flurries so a good dmg output, Good Saves, Good Abilities and a hunk load of feats. Monks always get a ton of realy cool feats, but dont get access to many due to low number of Feats. The one big down fall i see to it is haveing Alot of atributes to fill.

Monks need Good Wis and Dex for AC and Stunning fist. Also need Con for Hps, Int for Expertise ( a must have for a tank imho ) Str for more Dmg output - But for a monk not to big a deal if just get weapon finess.

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Was thinking Fighter/Barbarian. But theres alot of overlap. You basicly are a Barbarian with Lots of feats. Not a bad combo in the least, but theres alot of overlap.

Druid/Barbarian, Come on... Rageing Dire Bear ( shutter ). Plus with Druid augments and buffs, be a very stout combo.

Monk/Rogue. Monks get a Ton of attacks, all of those with SA and the Monk fist dmg - insane! Plus ton of skills and niffty lil abilities.

Ranger/Barbarian. Rage+Favored Enemy and tons of free 2 weapon feats - very nice.

Ranger/Monk. well - this would be odd, but a interesting combo.

Cleric/Anything. Hella Nice - Healing+other class abilities
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As a Duo, I always thought Fighter/Monk and Cleric(Druid)/Rogue would be a nice combo. Fighter/Monk easly gets into flanking with movement while the rogue chews mob up. Healing afterwords and not having to worry about traps or locked doors.

But, hell. Any duo would be good gestalt. But thats the fun of the topic, you cant really go wrong

 

[Mercule]

Depends on what sort of flavor you want. Two combos that appeal to me are Fighter/Monk and Ranger/Barbarian.

I've also got an old character that I had to jump through some hoops the first time around. I'd love to Gestalt him into Wizard/Rogue/Thief-Acrobat. I can pretty well guarantee he isn't what you think.

 

[Acid_crash]

I have a question about Gestalted characters and prestige classes.

Do prestige classes follow the same rules as core classes, or when a person with gestalt characters pick a prestige class, is the prestige class the ONLY class they take that level? I'm just curious, because if a prestige class can gestalt with another core class, then characters could truly become powering very quickly.

 

[Kabol]

Its pretty much recomended that you Dont allow PrCs when you Gestault a character because of the confusion. Its usualy between 2 Core classes

 

[jodyjohnson]

I believe gestalt between a core class and a prestige was allowed but not two prestiges at the same time. Certain prestige that were designed to fill the 'two class' advancement should be excluded according to UA.

It is certainly reasonable to allow core only but there are still variations on core classes that can only be done with Prestige classes. It's the same rule as PRC in general - only those allowed by the DM.