You an' FRED

[Aus_Snow]

So I've been invited into a H.E.R.O. game (Fifth Revised EDition, right?). Not sure yet if I even can do this, on top of everything else. But say I do - what's the system like? Any pitfalls, serious b0rken-ness, annoying features. . .? Basically, what's the dirt on HERO?

Note: I'm familiar with M&M, and have heard its system referred to by some as kinda HERO-lite-ish. I've also tried GURPS (but didn't like it much, system-wise.)

And yeah, I guess - if you must - feel free to go over its virtues as well. But keep in mind, this is not a 'sell me on system x' thread.

 

[pawsplay]

M&M is very similar in scope and complexity. Basically, imagine M&M plus the Ultimate Powers book mashed up with the campaign options from True20. It's fun, versatile, and after five editions, has been playtested to the point of divinity. I'm not entirely happy with some changes from 4e, but I really can't complain with the overall result.

The thing that bothers some people is that, like many older RPGs, attributes aren't meaningful at every point. But since some secondary stats are based on dividing by 3, others by 5, and still others by dividing in half and adding, there are actually few meaningless values. So Int 13 and Int 14 are basically interchangeable.

Because it is so open-ended, it is possible to create world-breaking powers on a handful of points, but such traits are pretty obviously abusive. I could dig up some examples, but they are mainly interesting as intellectual exercises, like figuring out how to deal 25,000,000d6 damage before ECL 20 in D&D.

You can truly run just about any game out of the core book alone, but there are some nice genre books out there.

 

[SteveC]

I'm a huge HERO fan from way back, so I'll tell you that it's a fantastic system, of course.

If you've played M&M you already know the ropes of what to build in a character: HERO characters are completely pointbased, and you typically need an attack, a defense, some movement and some sensory powers. That assumes you're playing in a super hero game, of course.

The one thing that you may find a little disconcerting is how actions work in HERO: characters have a SPEED attribute that determines how many times they get to act in a 12 second turn. Normal people have SPEED 2, with heroic characters typically being in the 3-4 range, and superheros being 5-7 or even more. That's one attribute I wouldn't skimp on.

If you can tell me what kind of game you're playing in, I can give you more specific suggestions--I'm happy to help.

--Steve

 

[ValhallaGH]

I've never played, but it's my understanding that HERO breaks in a couple basic spots:
1) Drawbacks. Unlike M&M, HERO's only limits are the points you have to spend. With enough drawbacks, you can build insanley powerful characters at any 'power level'.
2) Super-Speed. Like many other systems, being fast is a God-trait. It's possible to have literally dozens of actions in a round, allowing a single character to do almost anything.
3) Old Familiar Places. The places M&M breaks (fully incorporeal, total invisbility, psychic blasts from hidden bunkers, etc) are places that HERO breaks.

Good luck and I hope this was what you were actually asking for.

 

[pawsplay]

Incidentally, Fred doesn't really stand for anything, that's a backronym. And it refers to the Fifth Edition rulebook proper (Fifth Rules Edition). The Revised books is properly the Big Black Book, ReFred, or the ABR (antiballistic rulebook).

 

[Sketchpad]

So I've been invited into a H.E.R.O. game (Fifth Revised EDition, right?). Not sure yet if I even can do this, on top of everything else. But say I do - what's the system like? Any pitfalls, serious b0rken-ness, annoying features. . .? Basically, what's the dirt on HERO?

Note: I'm familiar with M&M, and have heard its system referred to by some as kinda HERO-lite-ish. I've also tried GURPS (but didn't like it much, system-wise.)

And yeah, I guess - if you must - feel free to go over its virtues as well. But keep in mind, this is not a 'sell me on system x' thread.

You actually may want to check out Hero Games's ite for any additional info.

 

[SteveC]

I've never played, but it's my understanding that HERO breaks in a couple basic spots:
1) Drawbacks. Unlike M&M, HERO's only limits are the points you have to spend. With enough drawbacks, you can build insanley powerful characters at any 'power level'.
2) Super-Speed. Like many other systems, being fast is a God-trait. It's possible to have literally dozens of actions in a round, allowing a single character to do almost anything.
3) Old Familiar Places. The places M&M breaks (fully incorporeal, total invisbility, psychic blasts from hidden bunkers, etc) are places that HERO breaks.

Good luck and I hope this was what you were actually asking for.

A couple of things: HERO does have limits on disadvantage points built into the game based on its power level. So your GM will likely say to you "build a 200 point character, who can have up to 100 points of disadvantages." That means you have up to 300 points to spend on your character: you just "pay" for the last 100 with your disadvantages.

One of the things I like to recommend to new HERO players is taking the maximum disadvantage points, but leaving a fair amount of them open as "mystery disadvantages." This will endear you to the GM, as they can write you into the plot in a variety of different ways, give you enemies, vulnerabilities and so on. It can be a great part of the game!

As far as Speed goes, it's just another attribute to manage. More Speed means more actions in a turn, so it does make you more powerful, but there is an upper limit. I would talk with your GM about what range he wants characters to be in and stick within it.

While HERO doesn't have the master power level chart from M&M it does have guidelines on what is appropriate in terms of attacks, defenses, speed and combat value. If you're within the benchmarks for your power level, you won't go too far wrong.

One other thing about HERO is that it has a series of pre-built power books for it, much like Ultimate Power for M&M. If you're new to the system you can't go wrong by looking at those books.

Again, if you've got any specific questions, I'm happy to answer, and I'll also recommend going to their website: lots of answers to be found there!

--Steve

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I'm a HERO player from back when it was a slim book called Champions, and I enjoy M&M as a mutant love child of HERO and 3.X lite.

I won't repeat what's been said before- it's pretty accurate.

What I will say is that, like any system you'd care to name, an experienced player can squeeze a lot more out of his resources than a noob...and in HERO, this could mean disaster if the GM isn't up to speed in paying attention to each PC's disadvantages.

If they aren't, disads can be overvalued and/or under-enforced, resulting in seemingly enormous power discrepancies.

RE: Speed- not every GM has upper limits on particular stats, many only enforce point limits per PC and perhaps an upper limit on the effective overall power level of a power or ability. IOW, they may limit a power to an upper limit equivalent to a 10d6 attack- baseline 60 points without power advantages and limitations...but they might allow a PC to put all of their points in one slot as long as the math all works. Speed could be treated in the same way- you might have a Speed 4 PC and a Speed 12 PC in the same party...but the Speed 12 PC might be a 1 trick pony while the Speed 4 PC might more closely resemble Batman.

 

[Aus_Snow]

Thanks, that's some great insight there. Doesn't look like the game's going ahead though. . . And besides, I have a number of games on already - so really, maybe it's just as well. (grumble, mutter)

Still, all of the goings on have awoken some curiosity - maybe I'll pick up that damn big book some day, and see what it can do, for one of my own creations. So all's not lost.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I tell you what- HERO is a great system for fiddling about in- IMHO, the best toolbox RPG ever. I use it quite often to design PCs that I later translate into other games because I can usually get EXACTLY what I want in HERO.

IOW, the HERO version becomes the ideal to which I aim.

I also use it the same way when designing characters for characters in pieces of fiction. When you know exactly what a character can and cannot do, its less likely that you'll make a continuity mistake down the road.

The are also elements of the game that are quite translatable. In HERO 4Ed, they released a book called "The Ultimate Martial Artist." It was a sourcebook for all things martial artsy in HERO...but it also had some conversion rules for its martial arts powers. I bring this up because, in HERO, martial arts is generally more effective (and crunchier) than in D&D, but they were presented in such a way that you really could drop the maneuvers into (what was then) 2Ed. And the thing of it is, you could do the same thing with all of the 30+ maneuvers for your 3Ed or 4Ed D&D game with a feat/prereq system. In some ways, it would be similar to, but IMHO, better than, the Bo9S stuff.

If you do pick it up, you'll find that PC design can be quite math intensive, but once you do that bit, the game runs itself.