You can't win this encounter

[Grogg of the North]

Something that I've been seeing a lot lately is that the party should be faced with encounters that they cannot win. That they should run. My question to you is how do you convey this information to the party without being ham-fisted about it? Now there are the obvious clues like the dragon being really really big or the player failing to penetrate the monster's armor after rolling a 19. But how would you subtly let your players know they're in over their heads. Have you ever found yourself in a situation where you just can't save the players from themselves?

 

[Blue]

Part of my Session 0 is that not all potential encounters will be level-appropriate. Then just train then that way from 1st level. Have them see some big foe in the distance that the decide not to encounter. Have a battle with a foe that can't catch them/has no reason to pursue (perhaps guarding a nest) that they can start to fight and then get away clean when they realize it's too much for them. Have an obviously numerically superior force but that doesn't want it to turn to bloodshed, so they see alternate solutions like RP, bribery, stealth, etc. are available options they can use if they are unsure about the opponent - or sure they can't take it. As long as you introduce it early and make it a recurring if rare issue, players will just get into the habit of evaluating if they want to fight something. Sometimes they can take something and won't fight it because they don't have enough reason to. I've been in a high level party (12th) that paid off rival explorers we are pretty sure we could have beaten just because we wanted to conserve resources for the forgotten temple we were in. Not enough reward to fight.

Oh, this really works best if you are using story award or milestones (either for XP or directly for levelling) instead of XP for encounters. If you only reward XP for encounters, players will (rightfully) expect that they can beat encounters.

 

[Tantavalist]

It probably varies with the table. I have never been a fan of level-based games or balanced encounters, so my players tend to know not to push their luck in any game. I've never had a situation where they kept going when it became clear things might be going against them.

The session zero advice seems pretty good though. Make sure that you tell the players they won't be able tp win everything. Also, tell them that the burden will be on them to work out whether or not they can win- that any TPKs will be on them and that you'll not pull punches if they get in over their heads. Tell them this even if you actually intend to cut them slack.

I definitely agree that this is hard to make work in a game where you get XP for killing monsters. If there's a reward for winning a fight then players are much more likely to start one, and to keep trying to win it. If they get the same XP for sneaking past without a fight or talking things out then they soon learn that starting combat means risking their characters for no actual gain.

 

[Bayushi_seikuro]

We had a GM growing up who, not only did he treat his campaign like he was writing the Great American Novel, but his definition of heroic was this:

Of six encounters, three should be heavily favoring the baddies so the party retreats, two should be 'neutrally' balanced 50/50, and one should be winnable by the PCs. He thought that was heroic. I can't even think of a fantasy novel that follows that math.

 

[MGibster]

Now there are the obvious clues like the dragon being really really big or the player failing to penetrate the monster's armor after rolling a 19.

I'm going to tell you right now that some players will not notice an obvious clue. In a Star Wars campaign I was running, the PCs were planet side on their ship being attacked by swarm after swarm of Tie Fighters. I gave them plenty of obvious clues that the Empire wasn't going to run out of Tie Fighters any time soon and there were a lot more Star Destroyers and Tie Fighters in orbit. Instead of finding a place to lay low the pilot continued to engage the Tie Fighters until they were blown out of the sky.

 

[Umbran]

But how would you subtly let your players know they're in over their heads.

You don't to it subtly. If you are being subtle, the players will miss it.

 

[billd91]

I'm going to tell you right now that some players will not notice an obvious clue. In a Star Wars campaign I was running, the PCs were planet side on their ship being attacked by swarm after swarm of Tie Fighters. I gave them plenty of obvious clues that the Empire wasn't going to run out of Tie Fighters any time soon and there were a lot more Star Destroyers and Tie Fighters in orbit. Instead of finding a place to lay low the pilot continued to engage the Tie Fighters until they were blown out of the sky.

Yeah, it's cases like this that underscore that there is no foolproof method of foreshadowing an unwinnable encounter. The world just keeps making bigger fools.

 

[Marc_C]

When I say ‘this could become a Wisdom 3 moment, your choice’ the players know what to do.

 

[Umbran]

When I say ‘this could become a Wisdom 3 moment, your choice’ the players know what to do.

I had one GM (for a non-D&D game) that would explicitly tell us before play began if the challenges were going to be particularly high threat.

 

[MGibster]

I try to establish these things in session zero. For my Delta Green campaign, I explained to them that we were an "X-Files" level of realism here and that any human threat you encountered could potentially end your life. That state trooper might not be as skilled as your character but that 9mm he carries can end your life. And if you ever see a group of men wearing black masks, body armor, and carrying MP-5s coming your direction you need to get the hell out of Dodge.