Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="StreamOfTheSky" data-source="post: 4270278" data-attributes="member: 35909">Ok, let's do a list, then.  I'm sure most of this has been covered.I'll start with the BIGGEST issue I have: It took everything wrong with 3.5, and made it WORSE!  In 3.5, unless you were a caster, you didn't really need a high stat in your primaries to do well.  Sure, you want it, but you want to be the quirky fighter with cha 16 and only str 12?  Sure!  At least you can still hit things.  Not so in 4E.  Because of the generic across-the-board upgrades of attacks and defenses, and utter lack of ways to improve against it, like with a feat for +1 attack, EVERY class needs to pump their stats just to compete.  If you start at level 1 with a str lower than 16, why are you even bothering making that fighter?  Do you LIKE only hitting 35% of the time?!  It's especially glaring with wizards.  There is literally no reason AT ALL to not make your int 18 (+2 from race as well) and kick your other 5 stats in the junk.  It gives you +to all attacks and damage, +AC, +reflex, what's the others give you?  Nothing that's worth dropping all that.  Paladins I've found nigh unplayable because it's such a waste, having to keep up wis and cha, which all add to the same things.  Similar for the eladrin race.  No matter what class, someone else does it better than them.Ok, now for other things:1) The turd-stained return of DM fiat, yay!  Most people liked having hard and fast rules for skill DCs, or how hard it is to break an object (which I don't think you can even do now), or lord help us all, tell us how hard it is to talk down the raging orc barbarian.  Those Diplomacy rules were bad, but at least there was some kind of baseline.  Now, you want to try and tumble?  Well, it's DC 15....unless the DM decides not!  No more set situational increases, no.  Who wants that?  Want to barter for an item?  I'm sorry, you're not even aallowed to have a rough idea of the number you need to beat, cause the DM's just gonna bs it at whatever amount he wants.2) Help!  *cough* I'm choking on the vanilla!  WotC made all classes the same progression.  Cause who likes individuality?  Why should the trained human weapons be better at hitting than the bookworms?  Why should hitting something with a sharp piece of metal hurt less than immolating it by fire?  All this system does is create the urgent need for every character to find a way to pull away from the pack.  Powergaming is more important than ever, if you want to improve your odds of wearing down the enemy before you go down.3) It might not be dead yet, hit it again!  I can't believe the phobia of these designers.  LOOK at the larger weapons progression table!  1d12-->2d6?  1d8-->2d4? (notably only one table has this second progression, the other skips this step.  Curious, no?)  What is this crap?  They're practically the same!  3.5 even rules them as such.  And now two-handing gives...no benefit.  Unless it wasn't designed specifically for 2H (versatile weapons), then it does.  What?  Also, nothing like holding a second weapon just to weigh yourself down, since outside of one class, it does nothing for you.  At all.  well, at least you have protection if one gets disarmed or sundered.  Oh wait, that can't be done any more.  Apparantly that tactic's just too complex.4) I get punched for a living.  You?  I tried playing a Fighter, with shield, as 2H was clearly...worthless. Little did I realize, the role of the defender isn't the badass lockdown crusader who keeps foes at bay and gives it as good as he takes it of 3E, as it's advertised.  Yes, it gets powers to keep foes on itself.  Unfortunately, the second half of the equation is missing.  Does WotC actually believe people are going to enjoy getting the crap kicked out of them while the rangers and warlocks get to do all the fun stuff and rack up kills?  The CLERIC was doing equal damage as me...AND healing at the same time (healing strike)!  The Wizard was doing the same as me, at range with multitarget!  Boy, I wish I had an alternative to attacking AC defense like most other classes do...5) What's that RP next to the G stand for again?  Every.  Single.  Class.  Every one, they have one major thing in common.  Guess what it is?  They're all defined solely for their combat role.  Not one mention for out of combat.  It's mentioned that there is a period between combats where PCs aren't eating, sleeping, or defecating, they just...like to keep it their little secret, I guess.6) Nothing's so cool when everyone can do it  To go back to earlier complaints, the fact that everyone's adding 1/2 HD to skill checks is just a disgrace.  The only difference between a trained and untrained character is 5 points, ever.  No "expert" who maxed stealth to 18 ranks and a "novice" who stopped short at 12, cause it's enough to beat a commoner's spot from range reliably.  Everyone's the same.  There isn't even synergy anymore.  Alot of skills that are almost always opposed become nigh pointless to bother with.  Sticking with the Stealth example, when against an equal level foe, even if they're untrained, they're within 5 points of you, really.  What are your chances not one of them will beat your roll?  Cause if just one does...  Course, now the only penalty they possibly take to spot is -2, if you're REALLY far away, so that helps....7) Come on, run!  Please?  This just deserves its own spot.  The intimidate skill, oh how it's been <s>nerfed</s> mangled.  If you use it in combat, you're automatically taking a -10 cause they're hostile.  Right...  But if I just walk into a shop and start yelling randomly, it's all cool? This...ugh.  You can END A BATTLE with a single Intimidate check, as it can affect EVERY enemy that can see you and hear you, causing them to SURRENDER.  What's the problem, you ask?  In 3E, the concept would be, increase the DC to do greater things.  This way, you could try to maybe Tumble at DC 100 to take no falling damage, but if you were fine just taking 10 ft off, you didn't have to beat DC 100.  In 4E bizzaro world, it's all scaled based on the ultimate use, with the exact same DC, even if you're just trying to intimidate one guy, beaten to one hp, and grappled by 5 guys.  With a dagger over his family jewels.  HORRIBLE design logic.8) It's the gaming equivalent of a padded cell  Everything's been dumbed down to such a ridiculous degree.  Every bit of precision of 3E was just thrown out. Whatever the effect, it's always a 10 on a d20 to end it, barring bonuses/penalties.  Any utility spell that left room for creative thought and application has been replaced by daily utility spells with extremely strict parameters and very short durations.  There is no more "101 ways to pwn with Minor Image."  We saw towards the end of 3E the banning and errata on such "trouble" abilities that let the caster have too much freedom.  After all, freedom's scary.  The players might actually surprise the DM with a creative tactic out of the blue.  Heaven forbid.9) Dude, easy with that sword.  Its just a game.  The amount of metagame thinking going on in 4E is disgusting.  No longer are the players just another batch of people in a giant sea of who knows what.  Now they know they're special and great right from the start.  They're "Heroic" tier, afterall.  Even before they've actually done anything.10) Would you ever believe the most broken houserule spell ever created would be something that does 1 point of damage to all creatures in a 50 ft radius?  Ah, minions.  The other part of that last point that just deserved its own heading...  It basically tells the players to identify the "minions" quickly, lest they "waste" their daily single-hit power on one of them.  These guys seem to exist solely to make the Wizard necessary.  If they didn't exist, and every enemy had substantial hit points, there'd be no need for spells that do 1d6 +int to an area.  You'd just have the strikers pick foes off one at a time, for much more efficient damage output.Quick issues: Powers sometimes reverse-scale (higher levels are weaker); have to wait till level 11 to really multiclass; race-class roles are even more pigeon-holed than in 3E; the primary reason to play a dragonborn is to look like a dragon...; the alignment system is broken and nonsensical (Corellon's even "unaligned" now); the remaining existence of spell books is such a blatant sacred cow survivor it's like a neon orange sign in the forest; feats manage to be dull, severely limited in both power and amount available to any given class, incredibly weak, and have prereqs that make many unatainable for those who would actually want them...all at once!; I see no mechanical reason to never offer new, improved at-wills, ever, over the course of 30 levels; there is NO path towards fighting unarmed at all.</blockquote>

Verification