You don't like the new edition? Tell me about it!

[Turanil]

I have no time, no money, and no interest in the new edition, not even one hour to spend to go and get a look at it in the LGS. But... I would like to hear from others how smart I am to remain away from it.

This thread is for those who are disappointed, angry, whatever negative feeling they got about the 3 new books.

Of course, this thread is NOT to begin a flame war, only to hear about those who don't like it and to know why. Obviously, lovers of the new game should better ignore this thread and read something else...

 

[Mark Hope]

4e is change. I fear change.

 

[DaveMage]

So much to say...

1. 3.5 is a great game, so I don't really have a need for a completely new edition. My beefs with 3.5 are all based on time: the time it takes to prepare, and the time it takes to play. 4E seems to have fixed the time it takes to prepare, but early reports indicate that while combat rounds are quicker, combat overall takes either just as long or longer.

2. Loss of previous edition fluff. I like the Great Wheel. 4E doesn't.

3. Loss of extensive spell lists for casters. Wizards seem to have gone from hundreds upon hundreds of spell options to dozens. Clerics now operate without spells. I like D&D spellcasters as they are in 3.5.

4. Subscription Model. In order to get the Core 3.5 in 4E, you'll need to buy at least 5 "core" books, and probably more. No frost giants in the MM? No half-orc, gnome, barbarian, druid, monk, or sorcerer in the (first) 4E core books? No thanks.

5. WotC defining fun. The designer arrogance that the 4E changes all lead to more fun (as if "fun" is some sort of absolute truth that only they are allowed to define).

6. Lack of campatibility. I have thousands invested in 3.5 worlds and adventures. I don't want to have to take the time to convert them to run them - especially since most of them came from 3PPs, who sometimes put their own spins on things.

I could probably come up with more, but that hits the heart of my beefs.

 

[Henry]

4th Edition kicks puppies and uproots your flower garden looking for truffles.

I suppose the thing I dislike most about the game is the loss of "resource strategy" that comes with the revamp of the spells into rituals and powers. It's a lot of fun to be able to reuse some nifty tricks without having to wait 24 hours, don't get me wrong, but there was a certain pleasure also in a cleric or wizard having to decide if his best spells were best spent here or in the next battle coming. You get some of that with Daily powers, but by no means are the daily powers so important that you're screwed if you commit them in the wrong battle. Also, I'm using Strategy vs. the word Tactics purposefully -- there are plenty of tactics to apply on the battlefield, but the difference between strategy in 3e vs. tactics in 4e is kind of like the difference between Wizards and Sorcerers in 3e, if that makes any sense.

The other thing I don't like is the dramatic scaling back of persistent conditions. You don't just "turn to stone", apparently; you have to miss at least a couple of die rolls before you turn to stone completely. Someone categorized this as "save or die.... soon" and it seems to fit.

Other than those, Gygax forgive me, after having playtested it for six months, I'm liking a lot of what I see, though.

 

[Byronic]

4.0 is nice. But it's also somewhat sterile, lacking character and sheer "spunk"

 

[TerraDave]

4.0 is nice. But it's also somewhat sterile, lacking character and sheer "spunk"

Wait, wasn't that 3E, or is it 2E...

...oops, I guess I have the wrong thread.

 

[Nifft]

3 is one of my lucky (and therefore favored) numbers.

4 is not.

My hatred is based entirely on reason, and is therefore rational and not emotional. If you disagree, you are disagreeing with reason, and you must be stupid. This is not a personal insult.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Byronic]

Wait, wasn't that 3E, or is it 2E...

...oops, I guess I have the wrong thread.

Hey, #e had plenty of character! And it even had supplements for the spunk!

 

[Slife]

Because four is death

Because four is death.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Let's see where to start?

Minions dying from a stubbed toe.
Pcs regenerating.
Tieflings, Dragonborn as core, but gnomes, halforcs are not.
Casters that never run out of spells.
Stupid striker, defender, cc crap.
Marks and aggro.
Too many hit points.
No rolling for hit points.
Rolling for stats is optional.
Warlords as healers?
Damage is fatigue, morale, etc, but restored by a healing surge.
Misses do damage.
Teleporting at first level.
Alignment system raped.

That should do for starters.