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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ironvyper" data-source="post: 4299101" data-attributes="member: 59739">Theres a lot of stuff i dislike but I could deal with or happily handle with a house rule. The couple of things that really broke it for me though and made sure I'll never run a game of 4e are....  The locked in roles. I didnt like how hard it was to make some archetypes early in the 3rd edition before some of the other books. Things like a fighter who became a good general or a rebel rouser leading a popular revolt and winning with brilliant tactics were very hard. They did a lot to fix that though later on in the game.     Now we have locked in roles. Your fighter is always a tank, your rogue will never be anything but a burglar. The wizard finally has some reason to multi-class and he'll never be anything but a neutered blaster.  The multi-classing rules are really a joke and because of that your characters are far too limited in their ability to advance and grow to become your mental image of them.    Level based magic items.... This is so obnoxiously video-gamey i cant deal with it. Its like when you level up in a video game and the new shop becomes available so you have your level appropriate toys now.  Its easy enough to house rule out of existence but i dont feel like i should have to have a list of house rules thicker then the PHB to enjoy the game.    The limiting of options. Things like tripping or disarming being class powers instead of combat options. Now if your rogue/burglar wants to sneak in and capture someone he cant trip the bad guy to hold him down and tie him up or disarm the target if they happen to be armed but need to be taken alive. They took so many choices out of the game that it reminds me more then ever of a videogame. I can clearly visualize the little combat menu popping up with my 3 or 4 buttons to choose from and no ability to do anything creative outside of the box.   The class dynamic didnt need to be changed either. A lot of these problems seem to center on them changing it from a game of individuals to a game about a team.  When i picture D&D heroes i picture people who are capable, powerful individuals who can stand on their own and win. They work together because its easier or because they like each other, not because if they dont have all the party roles filled they're doomed.     And those kinds of characters, ya know HEROES with capitol letters who can do anything if they try hard enough just dont exist anymore. Now we have people who are more like a swat team that kills monsters, you have snipers and medics and your front line entry team that all work and train together with interlocking tactics to win. And that makes perfect sense in the real world, but its not heroic like fantasy heroes are. Its board gamey like a table top game of Warhammer. Maybe some people are okay with that, but when i want squad based tactical combat i can either play a video game or some actual warhammer. And have a lot less hassle.</blockquote>

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