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Message: <blockquote data-quote="fuzzlewump" data-source="post: 4299324" data-attributes="member: 63214">You're saying that a fighter in 4th can't be a general or a rebel rouser? Why wouldn't they be able to? Also, it should be said that roles aren't an invention of 4E, the ideal party is the fighter, rogue, wizard, and cleric. Now the ideal party is the defender, striker, controller and leader. How is designing more classes to fit into these roles a bad thing? 3rd edition designed classes with this in mind, such as the beguiler to meet the needs of a rogue, etc, so where is the negative change?One more thing, multiclassing allows you to take powers from other classes, so your fighter doesn't always have to be a tank and your rogue doesn't have to be a burglar, not that the rogue really seems to be a burglar in 4E. Before you say, "multiclassing is a joke" explain how taking powers from other classes does not change their role. I mean, a fighter taking arcane powers from a wizard is giving up on tanking powers for arcana. Clearly he is no longer just a tank.Not so much, all editions are this way. You can't afford +2 or a +3 weapon until you're higher level. Is it like a new shop comes available that you can buy your toys at when you have the appropriate amount of gold in 3rd edition too? How about 1st and 2nd? Anyway, the levels on the items are purely an abstraction which help the DM out, ignore them and you are left with the gold values like we had in 3rd. No change. Wait, trip the bad guy, hold him down and tie him up? People did this? So trip attempt, grapple attempt, then, like, use rope? Anyway, disarming and tripping were suboptimal unless your character was built specially for it, and when it worked it turned a decent encounter into an absolute push over. But, I respect that you liked trip and disarm but it never worked as well as it sounded in my games.Alright, D&D has always been based around teamwork and cooperation, since 1st edition. Wait, maybe you have it backwards, now that I think about it. The heroes, yes, heroes, of 4E are more stand-alone than ever. They can heal themselves via healing surges and in combat with second wind. Each has a good set of powers for dealing damage, and some utility powers to help all around. No longer is a cleric absolutely required, or a wizard absoutely broken.I certainly see where your coming from in the limitation of option but honestly if you consider that martial classes before had very little option and now they have to pick 1 out of 4 encounter and daily powers every time they gain them, I think it's around equal if not more.</blockquote>

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