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<blockquote data-quote="Psion" data-source="post: 4304493" data-attributes="member: 172">I think its a mistake to say that roles weren't mechanical before. I think the two major differences are:1) The mechanical and thematic elements have been separated into layers. The mechanical roles are now roles; the thematic elements are relegated to the classes which fit within those roles. Before they were less distinct (but you could still argue with the class/subclass structure in 1e, they existed as roles, not just classes.)2) Implicit in the above, the mechanical elements/roles are now balanced almost exclusively around combat. Before, it seems some consideration was given to out of combat threats. Dating back to 1e, you need a rogue (as a &quot;role&quot;) because you needed someone to deal with traps, not because you needed someone to backstab/sneak attack in combat. It was as much or more a dungeon exploration RPG than a combat RPG.I certainly think that the new role structure does create limits on how the thematic &quot;roles&quot; look and act.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Psion, post: 4304493, member: 172"] I think its a mistake to say that roles weren't mechanical before. I think the two major differences are: 1) The mechanical and thematic elements have been separated into layers. The mechanical roles are now [i]roles[/i]; the thematic elements are relegated to the classes which fit within those roles. Before they were less distinct (but you could still argue with the class/subclass structure in 1e, they existed as roles, not just classes.) 2) Implicit in the above, the mechanical elements/roles are now balanced almost exclusively around combat. Before, it seems some consideration was given to out of combat threats. Dating back to 1e, you need a rogue (as a "role") because you needed someone to deal with traps, not because you needed someone to backstab/sneak attack in combat. It was as much or more a dungeon exploration RPG than a combat RPG. I certainly think that the new role structure does create limits on how the thematic "roles" look and act. [/QUOTE]

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