You must whip it...whip it good

[Thresher]

Yeah, Im not so sure about the subdual damage either, especially if it hits a face and they can cut flesh pretty easily too. I guess if you wanted some really greivous maiming the good ol cat o nine tails with metal bits on the end would hurt a lot.

 

[MarauderX]

Yeah, I don't like the armor thing either. I mean, 1-2 of subdual could be a smack in the face, along bare arms, whatever, and I can't see why it couldn't be done against armor wearing opponents.

Now I just have to convince the DM...

 

[Corlon]

The lazy one strikes again!

Isn't this exactly what the lasher class was made for?

No matter how you do it, in real life or in dnd, unless you completely unbalance it, the whip will not be a big damage dealer and will be more useful for cool stuff as previously described in the thread.

If you want to be good with a whip, go for the lasher class.

Of course for the disarming thing you could have a feat whip disarm and improved disarm

The first one makes it medium, and the second makes it large for purposes of disarming.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Re: The lazy one strikes again!

Isn't this exactly what the lasher class was made for?

Actually I think it is a perfect example of how wrong a prestige class can be. I don't see any sense in creating a whole new character class for someone who can do fancy things with a whip when it makes a lot more sense to just make some basic adjustments to the whip and allow a couple of extra whip-specific feats to exist. Some of the basic elements of the lasher class should be available to all, and other elements of the lasher class (if I remember correctly) are just plain silly.

Sword and Fist set a lamentable trend for prestige classes, ploughing a furrow which would have best been left untilled IMO.

Cheers

 

[SylverFlame]

personally, I like the stuff said in this thread. The whip definately needs a hand.

However, under the present rules the whip is an exceptional off-hand weapon. It is small, so therefore light for a medium character. It has trip bonuses which allow the player on the first attack to cause the target to become prone and then get ripped-up pretty bad on subsequent attacks.

For the trip bit, just use a rogue with a few levels in fighter. Your off hand attack is given to the whip to make the trip, you then get a second attack with that whip (assuming you succeed) against a prone opponent (no Dex) so all of the subsequent attacks are Sneak Attack allowed!! Dangerous even with out the fighter levels to boost BAB and get extra attacks. Nasty way to make a rogue a nice front line damage dealer.

 

[MarauderX]

A new Bard's Tale

Well, here's my situation:

I am building a new 2nd(possibly 3rd) level Bard after my last character did something suicidal. Looking at the weapons list, I am thinking of the whip to help out the front-line fighters as this Bard is going to be a much more cautious fraidy-cat. Mostly he will just sit back and shoot at them with a crossbow (so no need for the longbow or the other melee weapons, right?).

So I looked up the whip and it's capabilities, and found it sorely lacking in the Disarm category unless he is trying to remove a toothpick from the hand of a dead goblin before rigormortis. Yes, the whip gets a +2 to disarm, but my whole problem with it is the size category for something that has a reach of 15'. I think it may be time to write WotC a strongly worded letter describing how I wish to them to change the rules in my favor...again.

 

[Felix]

Marauder,
So the target gets a relative +2 to disarm checks. That's not all that big a deal. If you get a MW whip, the relative bonus for the bad guy drops to +1. (yeah, this is all against a medium weapon held in 1 hand) What this means is that you will miss more than you hit; but that's ok, because being disarmed is a disadvantage. Let's see what happens next session, see if you can disarm the dead goblin of the toothpick, and adjust from there.

Sorely lacking in the Disarm category? You can disarm the bad guy from 15' away! While the fighters are shielding you! All without a penalty. The only drawback is that the whip is a small weapon. Even then it gets a +2 to Disarm to reduce the Small penalty. If the whip were medium, every bard would have one.

I dig the idea of being able to take those feats mentioned that allow you to treat the whip as a medium weapon in disarm checks; the prereq's need to be appropriate.

 

[MarauderX]

Good points. It is the only ranged weapon that can make a disarm attack (as disarm normally requires a melee attack, with an AoO). However, it is a risky move to try a disarm because if you lose, the defender gets to try and disarm the attacker. Not only will that defender(with, say, a longsword) have a +2 on the first opposed attack rolls, she will get that +2 on their immediate attempt to disarm you. On top of that, you probably used your movement that round to get into position leaving yourself unarmed when that original defender attempts to stab you with a longsword when her turn comes around. I think I will stick with the trip to at least slow her down as she is chasing me after the front lines have been beat down.

Too bad I couldn't do 1d2 points of subdual on the back of her hand to make her drop that weapon, as long as she wasn't wearing any armor. Now that would be cooler.