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<blockquote data-quote="Argyle King" data-source="post: 5778269" data-attributes="member: 58416"><p><u>My 5E</u></p><p></p><p>I will first begin by saying I would want to utilize something which I feel is one of Monte Cook's greatest talents - crafting a setting that makes sense around the rules they were built with. Ptolus was what I would consider an epic undertaking. One of my regrets is never having had the chance to run a game using it.</p><p></p><p>D&D Lore has many places which are built in a way akin to Ptolus. If Forgotten Realms is to be the default setting, my choice would be to create a boxed set which details the city of Waterdeep, Yawning Portal Inn, and the first three levels of the dungeons of Undermountain. For those who do not know, the city is built over top of a dungeon complex. </p><p></p><p>Not only do I feel this would utilize the lead designer's best talents; I also believe it would provide a familiar starting point for many gamers. However, none of this is to suggest everything would be static. There would be enough familiarity in the starter set to allow gamers of all ages and editions to connect, but products beyond the boxed set would have some changes for the following reasons:</p><p></p><p>1) I would want to keep familiarity, but I would also want things to be fresh. This freshness would allow those who know the setting by heart to have a sense of wonder again as they discover things for the first time; hopefully giving them the sense of wonder they had when they were new players. </p><p></p><p>2) I have grown somewhat fond of the 4th Edition cosmology. If nothing else, I like the creation story and how the world has 2 echoes. I would want to find a way to reconcile these features with that of Forgotten Realms. I do not believe this is something which would drastically change the intro taste of the boxed set because -ideally- the boxed set would only briefly touch upon saying what temples were common in the city. The cosmology wouldn't be explored further until later. By taking this approach, those who do not like my 4E inspired vision would be free to use the boxed set as a starting point and then progressing using the old fluff they already know and love. All of this being said, I'm fine with cutting most of the 4E deities; I'd be ok with using old personalities with the new cosmology vision. </p><p></p><p>3) I'm a firm believer that fluff and crunch do have a relationship. It seems only reasonable that certain fluff elements would need to be tweaked to better fit the new direction of the crunch. This here is another area where I feel Monte would do well; Ptolus was a city built around 3rd Edition's rules. I'd like to believe he could repeat a similar idea again with the same quality of results. </p><p></p><p></p><p><u>Boxed Set Classes</u></p><p>Fighter</p><p>Rogue</p><p>Mage</p><p></p><p>The names would probably change to something different. I had considered Soldier, Skirmisher, and Mage. The basic concepts would be the front line & toe-to-toe style guy, the agile or guileful hero, and the guy who wields special powers.</p><p></p><p>As I said in a different thread, I would like to try making 'Cleric' a template of some sort instead of a class. The template applied to a fighter would result in something like a mace wielding strength based cleric; the template applied to a rogue might turn out more similar to 4th edition's Avenger class or perhaps a cleric of a more roguish god; the template applied to the mage would result in someone who uses a lot of spells and prayers - a cloistered cleric. This would work by giving you the option of trading out certain abilities from your base class (fighter, rogue, mage) and gaining divine abilities in their place. This would be justified in game by saying you needed time to pray, work for the church, etc in order to gain/understand your abilities. </p><p></p><p>I'd be willing to be swayed to a different idea, but I think there's something to the concept.</p><p><u></u></p><p><u>Boxed Set Races</u></p><p>Human</p><p>Dwarf</p><p>Elf</p><p>Halfling</p><p>Dragonborn</p><p></p><p>I'm sure that Dragonborn being in there might upset some people from older editions. However, the idea behind my boxed set is to appeal to both old and new players, so I'd like to believe one side can accept one race they may not care for in exchange for newer gamers getting 4 races which may be presented in a way which is different from what they have learned the game with. </p><p></p><p>Besides, Dragonborn is extremely easy to justify. Just make up some back story about how some years ago they were encounter for the first time in the dungeons of Undermountain. Long story short - they were created as a minion race by an evil dragon/mage using dragonblood/whatever. However, their service was not voluntary; they were all controlled at that time by some sort of mind stone which gave control of them to whomever owned the stone. It's not as if the ideas of dragon controlling orbs or draconic humanoids is a new one to D&D; I'm just applying them in a different way. </p><p></p><p>The boxed set will then dovetail that story into the current 4E fluff for them by saying they currently have no set place of their own, so they often work as mercenaries. A small section of Waterdeep would be turned into the stereotypical 'Little China" minority ward, and presto, we're done. Gamers who do not want Dragonborn in their game can either completely ignore their racial entry or make up a story to explain they were killed or left town due to some new evil wizard finding the mind stone which was believed to have been destroyed before. </p><p></p><p>I might consider adding some way of making half-elves by listing them as a subrace of humans & elves. They are one of my favorite races, so I'd like having them available out of the gate.</p><p></p><p><u></u></p><p><u>Cultural choices</u></p><p>In addition to class and race, I would also list a few cultural packages. I suppose you could think of them as being a 'class,' but geared more toward background information and less combat oriented aspects of a character. </p><p></p><p>Some ideas would include racial backgrounds, professional backgrounds, and social backgrounds. Honestly, I'm not 100% how this would work yet. I suppose similar to how Backgrounds and Themes work for 4th Edition, but I'm also taking a little bit of inspiration from some cultural templates I created for one of my GURPS campaigns. </p><p></p><p>It would be possible to take an unusual background such as an elf growing up with dwarves, but doing so would require spending a little more character creation resources. I don't want to punish anyone for playing what they want to play, but I also want choices to be based on what somebody wants to play more than based on some sort of min/maxing based around the perfect class/race/culture combo. </p><p></p><p>Where your class would have feats available, your culture might have whatever the analogy feats for non-combat related stuff would be. </p><p></p><p>Again, this is a very rough idea.</p><p></p><p></p><p><u>Beyond the Boxed Set</u></p><p>My intent for the Boxed Set would be to serve a purpose similar to 4th Edition's Essentials and the boxed sets of old editions rolled into one. It would give you enough information to get a bare bones game going and serve as an alternative entry point to the system without necessarily needing to have the core books (even though the core books would offer more material.) Even for those who would choose to buy the core books, the boxed set would still be useful because it would come with some maps and things of that nature related to Waterdeep; I'd probably toss a set of dice, a notebook*, a pencil, some character sheets, and perhaps a few cardboard standies or minis.</p><p></p><p>*By this I mean an actual notebook with paper. On the cover, it would say "Your story begins here..." I would want to invoke the idea that players are free to write their own story.</p><p></p><p>The first two books would consist of a Player's Handbook and a Dungeon Master's Guide. </p><p></p><p>The Player's Handbook would cover what it usually does: rules of the game; explanation of game terms, and some equipment. The player's handbook would expand upon some of the boxed set's fluff (perhaps some racial info and things which would be common knowledge to someone living in the D&D world) as well as provide more options.</p><p></p><p>The Dungeon Master's Guide would be part advice/guidelines on running a game and part monster book (it would include things common to Undermountain and information beyond the levels covered in the boxed set.) Traps, some magic items, and perhaps a few tables would probably go in there somewhere too. I'd like there to be a section on creating your own content too; if there's not enough room for that, well, there's always DMG 2: Advanced Options. </p><p></p><p>For the artwork in the books, I want to showcase the history, evolution, and future of D&D. Perhaps the fighter entry could have a page in which a fighters drawn in styles ranging from 1st edition to 4 edition would stand together. Alternatively, space out the styles on different pages throughout the entry. Not everyone sees things the same way; providing different looks will speak to a wider variety of people while also celebrating the game. </p><p><u></u></p><p><u>What do I want out of the rules?</u></p><p>Earlier in my post, I mentioned a relationship between fluff and crunch. I want a coherent relationship between the two aspects of the rpg I would create.</p><p></p><p>I want to keep 4th Edition's design ideals. There should be groups of creatures involved rather than the 3rd Edition model of a party versus fewer (but stronger) creatures. I like having a lot of moving pieces involved in an encounter. </p><p></p><p>I want 2nd Edition's tone and style. This is one area where I may be wrong because I've never played it. When I've had the opportunity to flip through some of the 2nd Edition books, there's a certain style and tone which speaks to me. I feel a sense of wonder, adventure, and story which I don't get when reading my 4th Edition books. I'm not sure why that is, but that is my perception. I want the rules of 5th to capture that same tone, but without needing to use Thac0 to do it. </p><p></p><p>I want a system in which skills and ability scores matter. I've touched on this in other threads I've commented in. Make swinging a sword and casting a spell into skills and place them on the same skill list as riding a horse, diplomacy, and sneaking around. Instead of the added step of deriving saves from ability scores, just use the ability scores. The numbers are already there, so why not roll against constitution to resist a poison; dexterity to dodge a falling rock, and one of your mental stats to resist mind control rather than having fort, reflex, and will?</p><p></p><p>I want Charisma to be a perk/feat/whatever instead of an ability score. If you want to play a fighter who has charisma (and become a warlord down the line,) you should be able to do that. If you want to play a rogue who has charisma (possibly opening up the concept of a Bard,) you should be able to do that too. </p><p></p><p>I want non-combat solutions to be viable. I know D&D is a game in which action is expected. However, I feel as though hacking through a problem shouldn't always be the best answer. Too often in 4th Edition games I was in, I felt as though the violent solution was so much better than other options that other options weren't really options. </p><p></p><p>I want NPCs and monsters to interact with the world in a way which is consistant with the PCs. This does not mean I want both to be built the same way. By all means, build PCs and NPCs/Monsters differently. However, do so while still allowing both branches of the rules to interact with the 'physics engine' of the game world in a consistent way. </p><p></p><p>The combat grid dies. Measurement for playing with minis will still be done in inches, but the square grid is a sacred cow which I'm axing. I will use the scale of 1 inch being equal to 3 feet (1 yard.) If you don't want to use minis, that is perfectly fine; the game will not assume you do. If you do want to use minis, movement can be measured in a manner similar to tabletop war games. I suppose that means I would include a measuring stick in the boxed set. I believe this allows DMs to be more creative when world building without needing to hammer their vision into a square shape; this also avoids any wonky diagonal movement issues by simply making it a non-issue. You can move in any direction you would like. </p><p></p><p>Make Mounted combat not suck... Look, I know that most dungeon delvers probably can't take a mount with them. Not every adventure takes place in a dungeon though, and the shining knight on horseback with a lance is a classic fantasy image. I hate not being able to play this classic character trope due to mounts not having any way to stay relevant more than a few levels. </p><p></p><p><u>Misc</u></p><p></p><p>I want Dream Evil to do the music for a commercial. I don't care if mixing melodic metal with a fantasy theme seems cheesy. I think it's cool, and I think it speaks to the inter-nerd in many people. Some examples of their music can be found below. I've included multiple examples because their style encompasses a few different song styles. Yeah, this would partially be a cheap plug for a band I like, but I also believe it would work. </p><p></p><p>[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ8NO5APJzY]Dream Evil Crusader's Anthem - YouTube[/ame]</p><p>[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_WMHg8c_4I]DREAM EVIL - The Book Of Heavy Metal (HIGH QUALITY) - YouTube[/ame]</p><p>[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3gIhsOFamM]Warcraft 3 - The Chosen Ones - YouTube[/ame]</p><p></p><p>Something like this is the style I want: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1j4MZerR7Q]Dungeons and Dragons TV Spot (Red Box) - YouTube[/ame]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Argyle King, post: 5778269, member: 58416"] [U]My 5E[/U] I will first begin by saying I would want to utilize something which I feel is one of Monte Cook's greatest talents - crafting a setting that makes sense around the rules they were built with. Ptolus was what I would consider an epic undertaking. One of my regrets is never having had the chance to run a game using it. D&D Lore has many places which are built in a way akin to Ptolus. If Forgotten Realms is to be the default setting, my choice would be to create a boxed set which details the city of Waterdeep, Yawning Portal Inn, and the first three levels of the dungeons of Undermountain. For those who do not know, the city is built over top of a dungeon complex. Not only do I feel this would utilize the lead designer's best talents; I also believe it would provide a familiar starting point for many gamers. However, none of this is to suggest everything would be static. There would be enough familiarity in the starter set to allow gamers of all ages and editions to connect, but products beyond the boxed set would have some changes for the following reasons: 1) I would want to keep familiarity, but I would also want things to be fresh. This freshness would allow those who know the setting by heart to have a sense of wonder again as they discover things for the first time; hopefully giving them the sense of wonder they had when they were new players. 2) I have grown somewhat fond of the 4th Edition cosmology. If nothing else, I like the creation story and how the world has 2 echoes. I would want to find a way to reconcile these features with that of Forgotten Realms. I do not believe this is something which would drastically change the intro taste of the boxed set because -ideally- the boxed set would only briefly touch upon saying what temples were common in the city. The cosmology wouldn't be explored further until later. By taking this approach, those who do not like my 4E inspired vision would be free to use the boxed set as a starting point and then progressing using the old fluff they already know and love. All of this being said, I'm fine with cutting most of the 4E deities; I'd be ok with using old personalities with the new cosmology vision. 3) I'm a firm believer that fluff and crunch do have a relationship. It seems only reasonable that certain fluff elements would need to be tweaked to better fit the new direction of the crunch. This here is another area where I feel Monte would do well; Ptolus was a city built around 3rd Edition's rules. I'd like to believe he could repeat a similar idea again with the same quality of results. [U]Boxed Set Classes[/U] Fighter Rogue Mage The names would probably change to something different. I had considered Soldier, Skirmisher, and Mage. The basic concepts would be the front line & toe-to-toe style guy, the agile or guileful hero, and the guy who wields special powers. As I said in a different thread, I would like to try making 'Cleric' a template of some sort instead of a class. The template applied to a fighter would result in something like a mace wielding strength based cleric; the template applied to a rogue might turn out more similar to 4th edition's Avenger class or perhaps a cleric of a more roguish god; the template applied to the mage would result in someone who uses a lot of spells and prayers - a cloistered cleric. This would work by giving you the option of trading out certain abilities from your base class (fighter, rogue, mage) and gaining divine abilities in their place. This would be justified in game by saying you needed time to pray, work for the church, etc in order to gain/understand your abilities. I'd be willing to be swayed to a different idea, but I think there's something to the concept. [U] Boxed Set Races[/U] Human Dwarf Elf Halfling Dragonborn I'm sure that Dragonborn being in there might upset some people from older editions. However, the idea behind my boxed set is to appeal to both old and new players, so I'd like to believe one side can accept one race they may not care for in exchange for newer gamers getting 4 races which may be presented in a way which is different from what they have learned the game with. Besides, Dragonborn is extremely easy to justify. Just make up some back story about how some years ago they were encounter for the first time in the dungeons of Undermountain. Long story short - they were created as a minion race by an evil dragon/mage using dragonblood/whatever. However, their service was not voluntary; they were all controlled at that time by some sort of mind stone which gave control of them to whomever owned the stone. It's not as if the ideas of dragon controlling orbs or draconic humanoids is a new one to D&D; I'm just applying them in a different way. The boxed set will then dovetail that story into the current 4E fluff for them by saying they currently have no set place of their own, so they often work as mercenaries. A small section of Waterdeep would be turned into the stereotypical 'Little China" minority ward, and presto, we're done. Gamers who do not want Dragonborn in their game can either completely ignore their racial entry or make up a story to explain they were killed or left town due to some new evil wizard finding the mind stone which was believed to have been destroyed before. I might consider adding some way of making half-elves by listing them as a subrace of humans & elves. They are one of my favorite races, so I'd like having them available out of the gate. [U] Cultural choices[/U] In addition to class and race, I would also list a few cultural packages. I suppose you could think of them as being a 'class,' but geared more toward background information and less combat oriented aspects of a character. Some ideas would include racial backgrounds, professional backgrounds, and social backgrounds. Honestly, I'm not 100% how this would work yet. I suppose similar to how Backgrounds and Themes work for 4th Edition, but I'm also taking a little bit of inspiration from some cultural templates I created for one of my GURPS campaigns. It would be possible to take an unusual background such as an elf growing up with dwarves, but doing so would require spending a little more character creation resources. I don't want to punish anyone for playing what they want to play, but I also want choices to be based on what somebody wants to play more than based on some sort of min/maxing based around the perfect class/race/culture combo. Where your class would have feats available, your culture might have whatever the analogy feats for non-combat related stuff would be. Again, this is a very rough idea. [U]Beyond the Boxed Set[/U] My intent for the Boxed Set would be to serve a purpose similar to 4th Edition's Essentials and the boxed sets of old editions rolled into one. It would give you enough information to get a bare bones game going and serve as an alternative entry point to the system without necessarily needing to have the core books (even though the core books would offer more material.) Even for those who would choose to buy the core books, the boxed set would still be useful because it would come with some maps and things of that nature related to Waterdeep; I'd probably toss a set of dice, a notebook*, a pencil, some character sheets, and perhaps a few cardboard standies or minis. *By this I mean an actual notebook with paper. On the cover, it would say "Your story begins here..." I would want to invoke the idea that players are free to write their own story. The first two books would consist of a Player's Handbook and a Dungeon Master's Guide. The Player's Handbook would cover what it usually does: rules of the game; explanation of game terms, and some equipment. The player's handbook would expand upon some of the boxed set's fluff (perhaps some racial info and things which would be common knowledge to someone living in the D&D world) as well as provide more options. The Dungeon Master's Guide would be part advice/guidelines on running a game and part monster book (it would include things common to Undermountain and information beyond the levels covered in the boxed set.) Traps, some magic items, and perhaps a few tables would probably go in there somewhere too. I'd like there to be a section on creating your own content too; if there's not enough room for that, well, there's always DMG 2: Advanced Options. For the artwork in the books, I want to showcase the history, evolution, and future of D&D. Perhaps the fighter entry could have a page in which a fighters drawn in styles ranging from 1st edition to 4 edition would stand together. Alternatively, space out the styles on different pages throughout the entry. Not everyone sees things the same way; providing different looks will speak to a wider variety of people while also celebrating the game. [U] What do I want out of the rules?[/U] Earlier in my post, I mentioned a relationship between fluff and crunch. I want a coherent relationship between the two aspects of the rpg I would create. I want to keep 4th Edition's design ideals. There should be groups of creatures involved rather than the 3rd Edition model of a party versus fewer (but stronger) creatures. I like having a lot of moving pieces involved in an encounter. I want 2nd Edition's tone and style. This is one area where I may be wrong because I've never played it. When I've had the opportunity to flip through some of the 2nd Edition books, there's a certain style and tone which speaks to me. I feel a sense of wonder, adventure, and story which I don't get when reading my 4th Edition books. I'm not sure why that is, but that is my perception. I want the rules of 5th to capture that same tone, but without needing to use Thac0 to do it. I want a system in which skills and ability scores matter. I've touched on this in other threads I've commented in. Make swinging a sword and casting a spell into skills and place them on the same skill list as riding a horse, diplomacy, and sneaking around. Instead of the added step of deriving saves from ability scores, just use the ability scores. The numbers are already there, so why not roll against constitution to resist a poison; dexterity to dodge a falling rock, and one of your mental stats to resist mind control rather than having fort, reflex, and will? I want Charisma to be a perk/feat/whatever instead of an ability score. If you want to play a fighter who has charisma (and become a warlord down the line,) you should be able to do that. If you want to play a rogue who has charisma (possibly opening up the concept of a Bard,) you should be able to do that too. I want non-combat solutions to be viable. I know D&D is a game in which action is expected. However, I feel as though hacking through a problem shouldn't always be the best answer. Too often in 4th Edition games I was in, I felt as though the violent solution was so much better than other options that other options weren't really options. I want NPCs and monsters to interact with the world in a way which is consistant with the PCs. This does not mean I want both to be built the same way. By all means, build PCs and NPCs/Monsters differently. However, do so while still allowing both branches of the rules to interact with the 'physics engine' of the game world in a consistent way. The combat grid dies. Measurement for playing with minis will still be done in inches, but the square grid is a sacred cow which I'm axing. I will use the scale of 1 inch being equal to 3 feet (1 yard.) If you don't want to use minis, that is perfectly fine; the game will not assume you do. If you do want to use minis, movement can be measured in a manner similar to tabletop war games. I suppose that means I would include a measuring stick in the boxed set. I believe this allows DMs to be more creative when world building without needing to hammer their vision into a square shape; this also avoids any wonky diagonal movement issues by simply making it a non-issue. You can move in any direction you would like. Make Mounted combat not suck... Look, I know that most dungeon delvers probably can't take a mount with them. Not every adventure takes place in a dungeon though, and the shining knight on horseback with a lance is a classic fantasy image. I hate not being able to play this classic character trope due to mounts not having any way to stay relevant more than a few levels. [U]Misc[/U] I want Dream Evil to do the music for a commercial. I don't care if mixing melodic metal with a fantasy theme seems cheesy. I think it's cool, and I think it speaks to the inter-nerd in many people. Some examples of their music can be found below. I've included multiple examples because their style encompasses a few different song styles. Yeah, this would partially be a cheap plug for a band I like, but I also believe it would work. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ8NO5APJzY]Dream Evil Crusader's Anthem - YouTube[/ame] [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_WMHg8c_4I]DREAM EVIL - The Book Of Heavy Metal (HIGH QUALITY) - YouTube[/ame] [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3gIhsOFamM]Warcraft 3 - The Chosen Ones - YouTube[/ame] Something like this is the style I want: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1j4MZerR7Q]Dungeons and Dragons TV Spot (Red Box) - YouTube[/ame] [/QUOTE]
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