D&D 5E Your 5E

[Stormonu]

People have been tackling bits and pieces of what they're wanting to see in (or not in) 5E, but I'd like to know what folks "10,000 ft. view" is of what they want to see in the next edition.

Give us something akin to a table of contents of those things you want to see in 5E and maybe a short (1-2 sentence) description of which way you'd like to see the reed bend in certain areas (ex: "Races: Human, Elf, Dwarf, Halfling. Racial feats available for each at 1st, 5th, 10th and 15th level.")

Let's not try to comment on each other's lists, just put out what you want and we can compare notes in another thread.

I'll chime in a little later with my own, hopefully after the thread has had some time to percolate (and I can make notes on anything I might have not thought of...).

 

[SensoryThought]

1. Quality online support.
2. More fluff and less crunch generally.
3. Forward the concepts of RP and story rather than encounters and skill checks.
4. Digital sales.
5. Keep the idea of roles, something red box d&d and 4e had in common (it promotes teamwork).

Everything else is just dressing.

 

[MortalPlague]

Races: Human, Elf, Dwarf, Halfling
Classes: Fighter, Paladin, Wizard, Sorcerer, Cleric, Druid, Rogue, Ranger. (2 Martial, 2 Arcane, 2 Divine, and 2 Sneaky)

Alternate Class Idea: Fighting Man, Magic User, Sneaky Fellow. Players would layer 'themes' on top of these 'classes'. Themes would include things like 'swordmaster', 'holy warrior', 'savage'. A Savage Fighting Man would be a barbarian, where a Savage Sneaky Fellow might be a ranger or scout. A Holy Warrior Magic User would be a cleric, where a Holy Warrior Fighting Man would be a paladin. The class would give some abilities, the theme would give more specific abilities, and it would be easy to layer new themes on old classes as splat books emerge.

I would enjoy great breadth of options in combat, including special maneuvers (similar to encounter or daily powers in 4E). Also fights that find a middle ground between the quickness of 3E fights and the grind of 4E fights.

I would appreciate an increased focus on the wonder of exploration.

I would love to keep the encounter-building ease and elegance from 4th Edition.

I would love it if my entire gaming group were to be on board with this new iteration.

 

[LurkAway]

Alternate Class Idea: Fighting Man,

Fighting Person. Welcome to the 21st century

 

[Lanefan]

At the start:

Presentation: Less textbook, more whimsy and flavour.
Races: Human, Part-Elf, Part-Orc, Elf, Dwarf, Hobbit; Gnome if you must. And they're called Hobbits, thanks.
Classes: Fighter, Ranger, one of (Paladin, Cavalier, Knight), Cleric, Druid, one of (Magic User, Wizard, Mage), Illusionist, Necromancer, Thief, Assassin. Class abilities are gained as a function of class and level.
Abilities: S-I-W-D-Co-Ch, rolled on a 3-18 curve. Virtually no ability gain as an automatic function of level, other ability score changes are rare enough to be newsworthy.
Feats: none
Skills: a very short list comprised of things most adventurers would have logically had a chance to be exposed to during their lives: swimming, riding, boating, knowledge of (local area, religion, history, legends) are a few that leap to mind.
Magic - items: To be found in the field rather than made in town. PCs do not make items beyond simple scrolls and potions, ever. Buying and selling is OK but availability is random, sales and trades are almost always to and from other adventurers. DM given guidelines on how to devise unique-to-game magic items. When broken or destroyed, items may release magic in strange (and sometimes painful) ways.
Magic - spells: Vancian, except all casters work like 3e Sorcerers (i.e. no pre-memorization). Spells are dangerous - lightning bounces, fireball expands to fill the required volume, any ranged spell requires an aim roll, etc.
Adventures: Are the core of the system.
Rules: Are guidelines, and presented as such. DM given tips on how to modify to suit. System design is not married to a unified mechanic (e.g. d20) when something else works better.
Character generation: Simple enough that a char-ops board has no point.
Levels: Kept, but downplayed. System designed for 1-12 play but open-ended beyond that for those as wants it. First level is close to commoner.
Attitude: PCs are not always special flowers unless the DM decides otherwise. There are other adventuring groups in this world and others, if you don't take on an adventure someone else likely will. If you're dumb or unlucky you will die; if you're dumb and unlucky you will die faster.

Later, and only as options:

Added races: whatever floats anyone's boat.
Added classes: Monk, Bard, Warlord, Archer, whatever.
Added levels: flesh out design for levels 13+.

There's more but it's late and I've run out of ideas for the nonce.

Lanefan

 

[trancejeremy]

Races:

Human, Elf, Dwarf, Halfing, Gnome, Half-Orc, Half-Elf, Planetouched, Changeling

Classes:

Fighter, Paladin, Ranger, Barbarian, Warlord/Marshal

Cleric, Bard, Druid, Warlock (3e style), Skald (basically like a Bard, but divine magic)

Monk/Martial Artist, Rogue/Swashbuckler, Thief, Assassin

Wizard, Priest, Sorcerer, Witch (something D&D has strangely lacked)

Multi-classing would work like 1e/2e - basically you would take the best of each class, but suffer an XP penalty. Dual (and tri) classing would also be an option (not just for humans, though)

I like the idea of 3es, but it just didn't work well in practice without resorting to prestige classes.


Combat:

Grid very, very optional (if possible, farm it out to a boardgame or something). One action per round

Skills:

Like d20's, but with more skill points and no level cap on skill ranks

Other

Bring back stronghold/dominion rules. I've always found that a lot of fun.

Great Wheel Cosmology - lots of planar travel

 

[Argyle King]

My 5E

I will first begin by saying I would want to utilize something which I feel is one of Monte Cook's greatest talents - crafting a setting that makes sense around the rules they were built with. Ptolus was what I would consider an epic undertaking. One of my regrets is never having had the chance to run a game using it.

D&D Lore has many places which are built in a way akin to Ptolus. If Forgotten Realms is to be the default setting, my choice would be to create a boxed set which details the city of Waterdeep, Yawning Portal Inn, and the first three levels of the dungeons of Undermountain. For those who do not know, the city is built over top of a dungeon complex.

Not only do I feel this would utilize the lead designer's best talents; I also believe it would provide a familiar starting point for many gamers. However, none of this is to suggest everything would be static. There would be enough familiarity in the starter set to allow gamers of all ages and editions to connect, but products beyond the boxed set would have some changes for the following reasons:

1) I would want to keep familiarity, but I would also want things to be fresh. This freshness would allow those who know the setting by heart to have a sense of wonder again as they discover things for the first time; hopefully giving them the sense of wonder they had when they were new players.

2) I have grown somewhat fond of the 4th Edition cosmology. If nothing else, I like the creation story and how the world has 2 echoes. I would want to find a way to reconcile these features with that of Forgotten Realms. I do not believe this is something which would drastically change the intro taste of the boxed set because -ideally- the boxed set would only briefly touch upon saying what temples were common in the city. The cosmology wouldn't be explored further until later. By taking this approach, those who do not like my 4E inspired vision would be free to use the boxed set as a starting point and then progressing using the old fluff they already know and love. All of this being said, I'm fine with cutting most of the 4E deities; I'd be ok with using old personalities with the new cosmology vision.

3) I'm a firm believer that fluff and crunch do have a relationship. It seems only reasonable that certain fluff elements would need to be tweaked to better fit the new direction of the crunch. This here is another area where I feel Monte would do well; Ptolus was a city built around 3rd Edition's rules. I'd like to believe he could repeat a similar idea again with the same quality of results.


Boxed Set Classes
Fighter
Rogue
Mage

The names would probably change to something different. I had considered Soldier, Skirmisher, and Mage. The basic concepts would be the front line & toe-to-toe style guy, the agile or guileful hero, and the guy who wields special powers.

As I said in a different thread, I would like to try making 'Cleric' a template of some sort instead of a class. The template applied to a fighter would result in something like a mace wielding strength based cleric; the template applied to a rogue might turn out more similar to 4th edition's Avenger class or perhaps a cleric of a more roguish god; the template applied to the mage would result in someone who uses a lot of spells and prayers - a cloistered cleric. This would work by giving you the option of trading out certain abilities from your base class (fighter, rogue, mage) and gaining divine abilities in their place. This would be justified in game by saying you needed time to pray, work for the church, etc in order to gain/understand your abilities.

I'd be willing to be swayed to a different idea, but I think there's something to the concept.

Boxed Set Races
Human
Dwarf
Elf
Halfling
Dragonborn

I'm sure that Dragonborn being in there might upset some people from older editions. However, the idea behind my boxed set is to appeal to both old and new players, so I'd like to believe one side can accept one race they may not care for in exchange for newer gamers getting 4 races which may be presented in a way which is different from what they have learned the game with.

Besides, Dragonborn is extremely easy to justify. Just make up some back story about how some years ago they were encounter for the first time in the dungeons of Undermountain. Long story short - they were created as a minion race by an evil dragon/mage using dragonblood/whatever. However, their service was not voluntary; they were all controlled at that time by some sort of mind stone which gave control of them to whomever owned the stone. It's not as if the ideas of dragon controlling orbs or draconic humanoids is a new one to D&D; I'm just applying them in a different way.

The boxed set will then dovetail that story into the current 4E fluff for them by saying they currently have no set place of their own, so they often work as mercenaries. A small section of Waterdeep would be turned into the stereotypical 'Little China" minority ward, and presto, we're done. Gamers who do not want Dragonborn in their game can either completely ignore their racial entry or make up a story to explain they were killed or left town due to some new evil wizard finding the mind stone which was believed to have been destroyed before.

I might consider adding some way of making half-elves by listing them as a subrace of humans & elves. They are one of my favorite races, so I'd like having them available out of the gate.


Cultural choices
In addition to class and race, I would also list a few cultural packages. I suppose you could think of them as being a 'class,' but geared more toward background information and less combat oriented aspects of a character.

Some ideas would include racial backgrounds, professional backgrounds, and social backgrounds. Honestly, I'm not 100% how this would work yet. I suppose similar to how Backgrounds and Themes work for 4th Edition, but I'm also taking a little bit of inspiration from some cultural templates I created for one of my GURPS campaigns.

It would be possible to take an unusual background such as an elf growing up with dwarves, but doing so would require spending a little more character creation resources. I don't want to punish anyone for playing what they want to play, but I also want choices to be based on what somebody wants to play more than based on some sort of min/maxing based around the perfect class/race/culture combo.

Where your class would have feats available, your culture might have whatever the analogy feats for non-combat related stuff would be.

Again, this is a very rough idea.


Beyond the Boxed Set
My intent for the Boxed Set would be to serve a purpose similar to 4th Edition's Essentials and the boxed sets of old editions rolled into one. It would give you enough information to get a bare bones game going and serve as an alternative entry point to the system without necessarily needing to have the core books (even though the core books would offer more material.) Even for those who would choose to buy the core books, the boxed set would still be useful because it would come with some maps and things of that nature related to Waterdeep; I'd probably toss a set of dice, a notebook*, a pencil, some character sheets, and perhaps a few cardboard standies or minis.

*By this I mean an actual notebook with paper. On the cover, it would say "Your story begins here..." I would want to invoke the idea that players are free to write their own story.

The first two books would consist of a Player's Handbook and a Dungeon Master's Guide.

The Player's Handbook would cover what it usually does: rules of the game; explanation of game terms, and some equipment. The player's handbook would expand upon some of the boxed set's fluff (perhaps some racial info and things which would be common knowledge to someone living in the D&D world) as well as provide more options.

The Dungeon Master's Guide would be part advice/guidelines on running a game and part monster book (it would include things common to Undermountain and information beyond the levels covered in the boxed set.) Traps, some magic items, and perhaps a few tables would probably go in there somewhere too. I'd like there to be a section on creating your own content too; if there's not enough room for that, well, there's always DMG 2: Advanced Options.

For the artwork in the books, I want to showcase the history, evolution, and future of D&D. Perhaps the fighter entry could have a page in which a fighters drawn in styles ranging from 1st edition to 4 edition would stand together. Alternatively, space out the styles on different pages throughout the entry. Not everyone sees things the same way; providing different looks will speak to a wider variety of people while also celebrating the game.

What do I want out of the rules?
Earlier in my post, I mentioned a relationship between fluff and crunch. I want a coherent relationship between the two aspects of the rpg I would create.

I want to keep 4th Edition's design ideals. There should be groups of creatures involved rather than the 3rd Edition model of a party versus fewer (but stronger) creatures. I like having a lot of moving pieces involved in an encounter.

I want 2nd Edition's tone and style. This is one area where I may be wrong because I've never played it. When I've had the opportunity to flip through some of the 2nd Edition books, there's a certain style and tone which speaks to me. I feel a sense of wonder, adventure, and story which I don't get when reading my 4th Edition books. I'm not sure why that is, but that is my perception. I want the rules of 5th to capture that same tone, but without needing to use Thac0 to do it.

I want a system in which skills and ability scores matter. I've touched on this in other threads I've commented in. Make swinging a sword and casting a spell into skills and place them on the same skill list as riding a horse, diplomacy, and sneaking around. Instead of the added step of deriving saves from ability scores, just use the ability scores. The numbers are already there, so why not roll against constitution to resist a poison; dexterity to dodge a falling rock, and one of your mental stats to resist mind control rather than having fort, reflex, and will?

I want Charisma to be a perk/feat/whatever instead of an ability score. If you want to play a fighter who has charisma (and become a warlord down the line,) you should be able to do that. If you want to play a rogue who has charisma (possibly opening up the concept of a Bard,) you should be able to do that too.

I want non-combat solutions to be viable. I know D&D is a game in which action is expected. However, I feel as though hacking through a problem shouldn't always be the best answer. Too often in 4th Edition games I was in, I felt as though the violent solution was so much better than other options that other options weren't really options.

I want NPCs and monsters to interact with the world in a way which is consistant with the PCs. This does not mean I want both to be built the same way. By all means, build PCs and NPCs/Monsters differently. However, do so while still allowing both branches of the rules to interact with the 'physics engine' of the game world in a consistent way.

The combat grid dies. Measurement for playing with minis will still be done in inches, but the square grid is a sacred cow which I'm axing. I will use the scale of 1 inch being equal to 3 feet (1 yard.) If you don't want to use minis, that is perfectly fine; the game will not assume you do. If you do want to use minis, movement can be measured in a manner similar to tabletop war games. I suppose that means I would include a measuring stick in the boxed set. I believe this allows DMs to be more creative when world building without needing to hammer their vision into a square shape; this also avoids any wonky diagonal movement issues by simply making it a non-issue. You can move in any direction you would like.

Make Mounted combat not suck... Look, I know that most dungeon delvers probably can't take a mount with them. Not every adventure takes place in a dungeon though, and the shining knight on horseback with a lance is a classic fantasy image. I hate not being able to play this classic character trope due to mounts not having any way to stay relevant more than a few levels.

Misc

I want Dream Evil to do the music for a commercial. I don't care if mixing melodic metal with a fantasy theme seems cheesy. I think it's cool, and I think it speaks to the inter-nerd in many people. Some examples of their music can be found below. I've included multiple examples because their style encompasses a few different song styles. Yeah, this would partially be a cheap plug for a band I like, but I also believe it would work.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ8NO5APJzY]Dream Evil Crusader's Anthem - YouTube[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_WMHg8c_4I]DREAM EVIL - The Book Of Heavy Metal (HIGH QUALITY) - YouTube[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3gIhsOFamM]Warcraft 3 - The Chosen Ones - YouTube[/ame]

Something like this is the style I want: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1j4MZerR7Q]Dungeons and Dragons TV Spot (Red Box) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[MortonStromgal]

Castles & Crusades + weapon and non-weapon profiencies err i mean feats + spell points.

Honestly if C&C had all the D&D copywritted stuff (Forgotten Realms, Ravenloft, Planscape, Beholders etc) and the above rules (some of which are in the keeper guide). Add the ability to buy pre painted plastic mini singles for all the monster like the new pathfinder ones and I'd be a happy camper.

[edit] oh and sell pdfs and make the books POD! and and make it OGL! so I can use the character builder and 3rd party tools/books that I want.

 

[Wormwood]

PHB
Starts with a blindingly simple core set of rules and assumptions. Almost an indie-RPG with retro-clone flavor.

• This first 1/3 of the book should contain everything needed to play a simple character all the way to 20
• The classes should be old-school/Essentials: class abilities replace powers (not even sure we need feats), spells are cast with a mana system.
• Combat/exploration rules are stripped down but complete enough for play.

Subsequent chapters present modules such as

• combat options (grid-based, stunts, etc)
• vancian spell casting
• new races
• new classes
• skill systems (two or 3)

Ugh. I don't pity WotC at all.

 

[Tehnai]

And there's my own list :

- Races are Humans, Elf, Dwarf and Halfling. They are simple (Bonus to X, penalty to Y, one racial ability, humans get to choose their bonus and penalty, but they don't have a racial ability). A set of generic racial abilities, given as examples to help DMs in creating their own custom races, similar to the system Savage World uses for races.
- Small number of class with optional subclasses/themes/archtypes/whatever
- A basic boxed set with a fun, open-ended adventure, maybe even an update of a classic adventure to prove compatibility with old-school stuff.
- An optional skill system that looks like feats (I've seen it suggested and I thought it was brilliant)
- Saving throws based on Attributes, similar to what C&C does.
- No mandatory magical items
- Availability of every book in PDF form, at a low-price
- Exploration-based adventures, released monthly and supported by organized play.

(edit)- Oh! Oh! Print-on-demand Soft-covers!

 

[RangerWickett]

Key things that define the game.

Character Creation
Players would be encouraged to work with their GM to determine parts of their background before they became an adventurer. Maybe you're supposed to pick three background elements, and they're each presented as some sort of bonus resource. "Oh, you've got a family. Great. You have the Resource - Family ability, so you can call in favors." Make it seem mechanical, but really just be flavorful, to remind new players that they're playing characters.


Core Mechanics
(When designing a game, I think you can scale either HP or attack bonuses/defenses by level, but not both. So...)

D20-based, as usual. Take some of Monte Cook's ideas about skills having, say, 5 ranks from untrained to novice to trained to expert to master. Actions would require a certain rank in that skill for auto success. If you're one or two ranks two low, roll to see if you can pull it off. Three ranks too low? No chance.

In combat, I'd keep HP, because that's classic to D&D, but a normal human only ever has between 10 and 20. Giants might get up to 40, and really titanic creatures like dragons possibly as high as 100. Improved survivability comes in the form of increasing attack bonuses and defenses, and perhaps small amounts of magical damage resistance. In this game, an attack that hits for 10 damage is a powerful blow regardless of the level. 'Cure light wounds' will make more sense when 1d8 is good at both 1st and 20th level.

(This has the benefit of letting us get back to just rolling dice for damage, and not having to add many modifiers. A greatsword might be 1d10. A barbarian with a greatsword, still 1d10. A magic greatsword? Okay, maybe 1d10+1. A giant's greatsword? Maybe 2d10.)


Races
Sure, the usual. But no ability score modifiers. Find some other way to make elvish archers and dwarf axe-swingers good.


Classes
I like the 3e model of being able to pick and choose among classes. If we decouple attack and defense bonus improvements from 'class level' and link it just to 'total level,' you end up with more freedom to pick and choose options without concern for ending up underpowered.

I'd love to get rid of ugly 'power card' format for abilities. Present them in paragraph text form, perhaps with some special format for actual mechanics, like attack bonuses and damage. The character builder should pop out something that looks more like a 4e monster stat block that fits on one page, rather than the 5 to 10 page monster we get for PCs now.

The idea of class roles is nice, but can be loosened up. Let's present classes narratively first ("Fighters are focused on martial prowess. Rogues rely on tricks and surprise in battle. Wizards are poor with weapons, but if you let them cast a spell they can change a battle in countless strange ways."), then list various options characters can take, with notes of what role that option best serves.

Like fighters might get to choose one option per level, and at low level they might get to choose from "hold the line" as a defender, "power attack" as a striker, "intimidating presence" as a controller, and "commander tactics" as a leader. And you could create pre-made lists of powers that someone could take if they wanted to be a 'ranger' or 'warlord' or 'cavalier.'

Wizards likewise might get walls of fire for control, lightning bolts for striking, invincibility for defending, and the ability to enchant people's weapons or heal as a leader.


Levels
There are four tiers, each 5 levels long, for a total of 20 levels. This is a d20 game, so I think '20' is a good number to show up a lot.

The beginning of the book says, "Not all games will span all tiers. Most will only cover one or two. D&D is designed to let heroes rise from common people to champions of their world and possibly even gods, but the players and DM should decide what type of game they want to play."

Adventurer Tier. Levels 1-5. This is where D&D has the option to be gritty. You have HP, and when it's gone, you either get a lasting wound or you slowly bleed to death. You're a normal person, and wounds can have actual consequences.

Most adventures would demand avoiding confrontation, solving puzzles, exploring dangerous locations, and occasionally running away.

Heroic Tier. Levels 6-10. This is the default of 4e, where PCs are tough as action heroes. Second winds and magical healing mean the party can jump into combat with confidence that as long as they make it out alive, they can avoid lasting consequences of horrible wounds.

Adventures typically involve hunting down monsters and taking out villains, but should still include elements of exploration and problem solving from adventurer tier.

Paragon Tier. Levels 11-15. If heroic tier is John McClane from Die Hard, paragon tier is pretty much any Arnold Schwarzenegger movie. Or 300. You've got a few encounter powers to block or ignore damage as a reaction; it's not quite the same as having extra hit points, but it does mean you're able to get roughed up more before you're in danger of death.

You're saving the day, laughing in the face of danger, taking on tons of enemies at a time. More importantly, you don't have to just be a team of bad-asses. You can have resources at your disposal, be that armies, thieves' guilds, forests full of critters, or a few angels from the celestial bureaucracy. Your reach extends farther than just what's nearby.

Epic Tier. Levels 16-20. In combat, you're like someone out of Dragon Ball Z or God of War. Out of combat, you have a mythic nature. Your mere presence affects reality.

In combat you can easily heal, even come back from the dead. Mundane attacks pose no threat, so you could wade through a hostile army and emerge unscathed. Combats aren't simply about hitting for damage; you first have to find a way to take away your opponent's power, or to strike at his metaphysical weak point.




The point is to a) make combat feel different at each tier, and b) offer grander scope in adventures each tier. Groups can just pick one part or the other if they want -- maybe you can kill a god just by clocking it in the head with a sling stone -- but the default progression will combine the two.

 

[Wormwood]

Epic Tier. Levels 16-20. In combat, you're like someone out of Dragon Ball Z or God of War. Out of combat, you have a mythic nature. Your mere presence affects reality.

I *love* tiers, and especially love what 4e attempted with Epic Destinies. But the more I think about, I find myself wondering what it would be like if once you reach the epic tier (let's say 20th), you get off the XP conveyor belt (i.e. no level 21). Play continues---the game doesn't end until you fulfill your destiny, but you no longer have to track XP and accumulate powers; you're already the apex of your career.

Meh. Just something I've been kicking around. Carry on.

 

[Thorgrim Sekkrhrafn]

Character Creation

Races


Human
Elf
High
Drow
Wood/Sylvan
Half-Elf (multiple builds for racial combinations beyond simply human/elf)
Dwarf
Mountain
Deep/Duergar
Half-Dwarf/Mul (multiple builds for racial combinations beyond simply human/dwarf)
Gnome
Halfling
Half-Orc
Planetouched (Tiefling/Aasimar/Genasi)
Modron (yes, I said it)

Stats


Strength
Intelligence
Wisdom
Dexterity
Constitution
Charisma
Comeliness
Yes, split CHR back up again, grognards! Looks and personal magnetism, though related, are not the same thing. Most fuse the two and handwave it away to fluff descriptions but, truly, I think this works the best. I’m probably the only guy carrying the torch for the stat since Unearthed Arcana, but…


Classes


Warrior
Knight
Barbarian
Warrior=semi-skilled, generic fighter. Knight=Paladin/cavalier-like, with or without alignment restrictions, depending on the build. Barbarian=Conan and Beowulf


Mage
Illusionist
Sorcerer
Warlock
Mage=generic magic-user. Illusionist=specialist. Sorcerer=as per 3E/3.5E. Warlock=as per 3E/4E; YMMV


Cleric
Monk


Rogue
Assassin
Bard


Psion
Psychic Warrior (or Battlemind, whichever sounds better)

In my judgment, psionics and epic play should be part of the core rules from the get-go but should also be the topics of additional supplements later on down the line. Epic play should be more 3E-ish than 4E and I’d do away with the whole notion of ‘tiers’ entirely. You start hitting ‘epic’ at the 21st level and keep on going. No upper limits. No enforced retirement. Dimly-viewed destinies if you like but the idea that we need a mechanical end for gameplay and we’ve got to shoehorn it into the game is, IMO, a mistake.

Cosmology should be a modified Great Wheel but leave the details for another supplement later on. Suffice to say, Sigil should be the centre of things.

Bring back more serious aspects of starjamming (no giant space hamsters, please) as the ‘glue’ to link various worlds/settings together. It might not be enough to make it a setting book but you might be able to squeeze a small supplement of crunch/fluff on the conceptual framework (crystal spheres, starjamming itself…)

Later supplements should bring back the Oriental Adventures side of things. We need a good Eastern setting-style set of mechanics but we should define it wider than the Japan/China/Korea templates we’ve used thus far. It should encompass all of the basic Asian sources, including South Asia (Indian subcontinent) and Central Asia (the ‘Stans). I’m not sure we need to bring back an Arabian Adventures styled setting but you can get touches of it by pulling in Central Asian themes into a new OA.

 

[Lidgar]

Non-linear advancement in levels. Levels 1-3 go fairly fast, 4-10, moderate, 11+, slow.

Core Races: Human, Elf, Dwarf. "Advanced" races of halfling, gnome, half-orc, half-elf.

Core Classes: Warrior (or Fighter), Wizard, Cleric, Thief. "Advanced" player classes of Assassin, Barbarian, Paladin, Bard (but akin to the 1e bard) Druid, Ranger (akin to the 1e ranger) , Warlock (sorceror-like spellcaster, but different spell list and has a patron), Illusionist.

Feats = class abilities.

Skill system = major skills (level+ability modifier) and minor skills (1/2level+ability modifier), maybe 12 total skill types.

Very few if any stat buffing spells. Buff spells provide flat modifiers (i.e., +1 to hit).

Combat system that makes the grid optional - flanking, AoO, etc. are optional rules.

 

[Tehnai]

Levels
There are four tiers, each 5 levels long, for a total of 20 levels. This is a d20 game, so I think '20' is a good number to show up a lot.

The beginning of the book says, "Not all games will span all tiers. Most will only cover one or two. D&D is designed to let heroes rise from common people to champions of their world and possibly even gods, but the players and DM should decide what type of game they want to play."

Adventurer Tier. Levels 1-5. This is where D&D has the option to be gritty. You have HP, and when it's gone, you either get a lasting wound or you slowly bleed to death. You're a normal person, and wounds can have actual consequences.

Most adventures would demand avoiding confrontation, solving puzzles, exploring dangerous locations, and occasionally running away.

Heroic Tier. Levels 6-10. This is the default of 4e, where PCs are tough as action heroes. Second winds and magical healing mean the party can jump into combat with confidence that as long as they make it out alive, they can avoid lasting consequences of horrible wounds.

Adventures typically involve hunting down monsters and taking out villains, but should still include elements of exploration and problem solving from adventurer tier.

Paragon Tier. Levels 11-15. If heroic tier is John McClane from Die Hard, paragon tier is pretty much any Arnold Schwarzenegger movie. Or 300. You've got a few encounter powers to block or ignore damage as a reaction; it's not quite the same as having extra hit points, but it does mean you're able to get roughed up more before you're in danger of death.

You're saving the day, laughing in the face of danger, taking on tons of enemies at a time. More importantly, you don't have to just be a team of bad-asses. You can have resources at your disposal, be that armies, thieves' guilds, forests full of critters, or a few angels from the celestial bureaucracy. Your reach extends farther than just what's nearby.

Epic Tier. Levels 16-20. In combat, you're like someone out of Dragon Ball Z or God of War. Out of combat, you have a mythic nature. Your mere presence affects reality.

In combat you can easily heal, even come back from the dead. Mundane attacks pose no threat, so you could wade through a hostile army and emerge unscathed. Combats aren't simply about hitting for damage; you first have to find a way to take away your opponent's power, or to strike at his metaphysical weak point.

This needs to happen.

 

[Pilgrim]

Originally Posted by RangerWickett

Levels
There are four tiers, each 5 levels long, for a total of 20 levels. This is a d20 game, so I think '20' is a good number to show up a lot.

The beginning of the book says, "Not all games will span all tiers. Most will only cover one or two. D&D is designed to let heroes rise from common people to champions of their world and possibly even gods, but the players and DM should decide what type of game they want to play."

Adventurer Tier. Levels 1-5. This is where D&D has the option to be gritty. You have HP, and when it's gone, you either get a lasting wound or you slowly bleed to death. You're a normal person, and wounds can have actual consequences.

Most adventures would demand avoiding confrontation, solving puzzles, exploring dangerous locations, and occasionally running away.

Heroic Tier. Levels 6-10. This is the default of 4e, where PCs are tough as action heroes. Second winds and magical healing mean the party can jump into combat with confidence that as long as they make it out alive, they can avoid lasting consequences of horrible wounds.

Adventures typically involve hunting down monsters and taking out villains, but should still include elements of exploration and problem solving from adventurer tier.

Paragon Tier. Levels 11-15. If heroic tier is John McClane from Die Hard, paragon tier is pretty much any Arnold Schwarzenegger movie. Or 300. You've got a few encounter powers to block or ignore damage as a reaction; it's not quite the same as having extra hit points, but it does mean you're able to get roughed up more before you're in danger of death.

You're saving the day, laughing in the face of danger, taking on tons of enemies at a time. More importantly, you don't have to just be a team of bad-asses. You can have resources at your disposal, be that armies, thieves' guilds, forests full of critters, or a few angels from the celestial bureaucracy. Your reach extends farther than just what's nearby.

Epic Tier. Levels 16-20. In combat, you're like someone out of Dragon Ball Z or God of War. Out of combat, you have a mythic nature. Your mere presence affects reality.

In combat you can easily heal, even come back from the dead. Mundane attacks pose no threat, so you could wade through a hostile army and emerge unscathed. Combats aren't simply about hitting for damage; you first have to find a way to take away your opponent's power, or to strike at his metaphysical weak point.

This needs to happen.

Double-y quoted because it is a great idea.

 

[Achan hiArusa]

I need to organize my thoughts for the variant I am writing for myself.

1. Introduction
2. System (roll d20, roll high)
3. Ability Scores
4. Action Points (awarded per level, modifying die rolls, use to get extra actions, use to reuse expended class features/powers, use for healing surges, feats/racial features/class features that use action points, regaining action points during play by doing something cool during play, variable amount by class tier).
5. Races (Human, Dwarf, Elf, Half-elf, gnome, halfling, half-orc, dragonborn, and tiefling, maybe a few more).
6. Classes (standard 11, add warlord and anti-paladin and a playable expert [For those who want to play whatever they want] and a purely social character [Aristocrat], all classes have at will, encounter, and daily powers, but spell casters get Vancian magic still with flexibility built in so characters can get some spell point options).
7. Description (Height, Weight, Age, Alignment [all 9] with Alliegiances [number based on alignment, extreme alignments get one, true neutrals gain three, others get two]
8. Skills (4e list is fine but add the Gamma World skills and a few d20 skills that got cut that were still useful, skill point and skill slot options for players)
9. Feats (some are action point activated)
10. Combat, Encounters, Roleplaying (Am I alone in hating the entire concept of skill challenges? I use both roleplaying and a skill check to determine results, and I'm a big fan of Exalted's Stunt system)
11. Magic (spells can be cast in a Vancian manner or in a slower ritual form aka Modern Incantations).
12. Spells
13. Appendices

Maybe I am just a bit greedy.

 

[Minigiant]

The way I would want to see 5E done is split into 3 part.

White Pages- Basic 5E
Green Pages- Advanced 5E (5A)
Orange Pages- Master 5E (5M)


Ability Scores
Ability Checks
Skills (Untrained, Trained, Focused, Expert)
Skill Challenges
Skill Points

The Basic 5E will just do ability checks. Advanced will use 4th edition skill system with a fixed skill challenge system. Master D&D will use 3rd edition skill points.

Races
Basic Races: Human, Elf, Dwarf, Halfling
Other Races: Orc, Goblin, Dragonborn
How to do Half Races (Half Elf, Half Dwarf, Half-Orc)
Templates: Fey and Dark (Eladrin, Drow, Gnome, Duergar)

Self explanatory.

Classes
Basic: Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, Wizard
Other classes: Ranger, Paladin, Warlock, Sorcerer
Healing surges
Nonspellcasting Class Features
Multiclassing
Alternate Class Themes (replaces feats): Barbaric, Underworld, Academic
Prestige Classes

The basic system will uses the core four. Advanced would add classes that use Advanced magic and class features. Master would add themes and prestige class. For example:

Fighter
HP
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies
Healing surges
Combat Challenge
Weapon Talent
Barbaric- Barbarian (Rage)
Academic-Commander (Inspiring Word)
Underworld-Thug (Dirty Fighting)
Duelist Prestige Class
Vanguard Prestige Class
Cavalier Prestige Class

Magic
Vancian Magic
Blood Magic (This is at-will and encounter magic)
Spell Points

Well get Vancian Magic for those who want it in Basic. Advanced add 4th edition style magic. And Master adds in spell points/mana.

 

[Achan hiArusa]

Oh, yes and call them thieves.

 

[Nivenus]

Rulebooks

• A basic set for new players that has everything they need to play levels 1-3.
• For veteran players a Core Rulebook that covers information for both players and DMs from level 1 to level 20. Available in both paperback and hardcover form.
• A Monster Manual that includes lists of monsters and sample encounters. Available in both paperback (perhaps with B&W illustrations) and hardcover form (with color) as well as in electronic form.
• Various supplementary rulebooks covering campaign settings, modular game rules, the epic tier, and so on.

Core Races:

• Dragonborn
• Dwarf
• Eladrin
• Elf
• Halfling
• Human
• Orc
• Tiefling
• Hybrid races, similar in execution to 4e's hybrid classes.

Classes:

• Cleric. With a base healer-style build and avenger, invoker, paladin, and runepriest sub-classes.
• Druid. With a base shapeshifter-style build and protector, sentinel, shaman, and warden sub-classes.
• Fighter. With a base knight-style build and barbarian, ranger, slayer, and warlord sub-classes.
• Mage. With a base wizard-style build and artificer, sorcerer, swordmage, and warlock sub-classes.
• Rogue. With a base thief-style build and acrobat, assassin, bard, and scoundrel sub-classes.
• An optional shadow class, elemental class, or psionic class can be added later.
• Multiclassing that starts with a feat but eventually unlocks most class features for the secondary class.
• 4e-style dual-classing.

Skills:

• Acrobatics
• Arcana
• Athletics
• Barter. Sort of like 3e's Appraise skill but with a direct social application.
• Bluff
• Disguise
• Diplomacy
• Dungeoneering
• Endurance
• Heal
• History
• Insight
• Intimidate
• Nature
• Perception
• Religion
• Stealth
• Streetwise
• Thievery
• All skills can be categorized as either combat, exploration, or social skills, with some skills overlapping in more than one area (like heal, which serves both combat and exploration).

Feats:

• Far fewer feats: 3.5 and 4e both suffered from feat bloat.
• More useful feats: Each feat should have a distinct and obvious purpose.

Powers/Spells:

• More or less keep 4e's system, though with the simplified class system, powers don't need a power source anymore (which never amounted to much anyway).
• Each class has five trees of powers, one for the base class that is included in the basic set of the game and four extra ones for the sub-classes provided in the Core Rulebook.
• Powers should have non-combat applications as well. Some powers might help a rogue sneak by an enemy or magically allow someone to understand a foreign language.

Rituals/Alchemy

• Make the rules less abstract and give concrete ways to obtain the required ingredients.
• Add crafting to the mix.

Miscellaneous

• Use the ten-alignment system I proposed in the Alignment thread, with five basic alignments included in the basic set (Law, Good, Chaos, Evil, and Unaligned) as well as advanced alignments in the Core Rulebook (LG, CG, LE, CE, TN).
• Get rid of AC and replaced with Armor Resistance. Use Reflex as the base defense for avoiding damage, with Fortitude and Will as defenses for specific attacks and use AR to negate damage that gets through.
• Find a way to make combat significantly shorter, perhaps by decreasing the amount of HP both monsters and PCs have or by increasing damage.

That's all I could think of for the moment.

EDIT:

Also, add me to the people who really like RangerWickett's vision of four tiers, though I might still keep around 4e's 30 levels (or at least make the amount of XP between levels large enough that it feels about the same).