D&D 5E Radically shrinking stat blocks

[Zaukrie]

It matters somewhat. Mostly for creatures that an energy type defines, like a fire elemental. I think you can safely ignore types and resistances as long as you are upfront with the players. I don't think it makes for particularly good gameplay, unless the monster is a puzzle to solve.

I was more talking about damage types from monsters to PCs.....I guess elemental damage matters for reactions from some characters, now that I think about it (though doing that damage back rarely works).

 

[Voadam]

I was more talking about damage types from monsters to PCs.....I guess elemental damage matters for reactions from some characters, now that I think about it (though doing that damage back rarely works).

Dragonborn damage resistance, Protection from Energy spell, Potion of Resistance, and Ring of Resistance each only protects a PC from one energy type.

 

[Zaukrie]

Dragonborn damage resistance, Protection from Energy spell, Potion of Resistance, and Ring of Resistance each only protects a PC from one energy type.

right....so why do we show monster damage types in general (if it isn't elemental)?

 

[Blue]

EDIT: For a meatier example, I started tackling the Ancient Green Dragon on page 5 of this thread.

View attachment 378251

On the left is the 2024 5e skeleton, marked up with my notes, and on the right is the stat block as I've rewritten it, reducing the size by at least one-third...and hopefully making it easier to read.

I've reduced the stats to just one number (instead of three). This number is effectively their saving throw bonuses, but it pulls double duty as ability scores, and as initiative. For example, a monster with Dexterity saving throw proficiency would - in this writeup - also get a Dexterity bonus equal to that (e.g. for the purposes of escaping a grapple) and a boosted initiative roll. I could probably go further and omit "initiative" entirely from the rewritten stats

I know that there's always short-hand versions of monster stats – whether in-line annotation like you'd see in an AD&D module or personalized GM notes on a monster – but I wanted to explore how actual stats could be shrunken down. I've come to believe that the weightiness of monster stats contributes to draining my energy as a GM trying to keep track of everything. This is just a simple example. The real work comes in cutting down the wordiness of 5e monsters where the language just bogs down parsing what's intended.

Anyhow, I'm curious about your thoughts. What are you doing to pare down monster stat blocks? Is stat block bloat a problem for you or do you embrace it? Are there certain ways you've seen stat blocks handled that you felt were easier to parse?

I prefer the full skeleton one.

I'm not saying a few changes in layout couldn't improve it. But every removal you did I had problems with.

First, save bonuses and modifier bonuses are not the same for most monsters past the very beginning ones. So we're losing functionality with combining them. Same with initiative.

Gear happens for the mindless undead to be the same as what's listed under actions, but having it written out helps DMs know what treasure they are giving out. Do the goblins all have shields? Do bandits have horses? How about rope or manacles to take a prisoner?

Basically, it looks like because it was such a simple and low-level monster that you could take some shortcuts that won't work with other creatures.

 

[mearls]

Dragonborn damage resistance, Protection from Energy spell, Potion of Resistance, and Ring of Resistance each only protects a PC from one energy type.

Tiefling has fire resistance IIRC, and barbarian is the big one. Though honestly, I kind of wish that rage just gave a renewing pool of temporary hit points each round. Resistance is very feast or famine.

 

[Voadam]

right....so why do we show monster damage types in general (if it isn't elemental)?

Tiefling has fire resistance IIRC, and barbarian is the big one. Though honestly, I kind of wish that rage just gave a renewing pool of temporary hit points each round. Resistance is very feast or famine.

Right, a bunch of PC energy resistances but weapon damage type I can't think of a 5e PC facing thing, just impacts on a few monsters.

You can stretch that to a PC relevant thing if you use animate dead to make a pet skeleton squad.

 

[Quickleaf]

I prefer the full skeleton one.

I'm not saying a few changes in layout couldn't improve it. But every removal you did I had problems with.

First, save bonuses and modifier bonuses are not the same for most monsters past the very beginning ones. So we're losing functionality with combining them. Same with initiative.

Gear happens for the mindless undead to be the same as what's listed under actions, but having it written out helps DMs know what treasure they are giving out. Do the goblins all have shields? Do bandits have horses? How about rope or manacles to take a prisoner?

Basically, it looks like because it was such a simple and low-level monster that you could take some shortcuts that won't work with other creatures.

What are your thoughts on my attempt to shorten up the 2024 Ancient Green Dragon stat block? Back on page 5 of this thread.

I can see the save/check/initiative criticism applying... but what about the rest? That's a more complex monster I wanted to offer as an example.

EDIT: Hah! Actually, looking back at both stat blocks, I did indeed keep initiative.

 

[Yaarel]

The benefits of correlating Perception with Intelligence outweigh the vestige of weirdly and inaccurately "wise animals". (For example, humans are apes, and it feels off to quantify other apes as if more perceptive than humans on average, nevermind wiser or with more willpower. Also, humans have among the best senses of vision of any reallife animal species. Our senses of hearing and smell can be less good comparatively.) Most animals have very poor observation skills.

Certain reallife animals have "superpowers", relative to humans, and it is fun to call attention to these. Sometimes, the senses of a particular animal are flavorful, and like a magic spell description, it is a judgment call whether to detail or abbreviate them in a statblock. The Cat is likely to be a familiar for the character of a player who is an animal lover, so maybe a bit more flavor is worthwhile.

So for example, a Cat can use Feline Senses to perceive a nearby creature or something new, but cannot use it to recognize a secret door or trap (tho the cat might smell a poison).

Feline Senses have the following in mind. A cat has superhuman hearing, even superior to canine hearing. In absolute darkness, a cat can still hunt prey by sound, and when reaching 3 feet away can pinpoint a location within inches. Surprisingly, the cat knows the size of the prey by its sounds. Plausible anecdotes have cats hear a heartbeat or breathing "from across a room". It is thinkable to give the D&D Cat something comparable to Tremorsense, but this would be a big deal in the game. As is, Feline Senses can sense the presence of nearby Invisible creatures. Cats can hear frequencies beyond human and canine hearing, and sounds from further distances away, but I doubt this matters in most gaming situations.

The cat is famous for its night vision, but its day vision seems roughly the same as humans. Apparently, cats have difficulty seeing in the distance. The clearest sight is about 20 feet, and after that things gradually get blurry. Cats lack facial recognition and rely on smell to identify individuals. Shades of red look greenish or grayish.

Probably the D&D Cat hit points should be higher. Cats are surprising tough for their size. I am unsure how to reconcile low hit points with surviving Falling damage. Maybe the distance of a Long Jump is normally subtracted from the distance fallen, especially when intentionally jumping down from a height?

 

[deadman1204]

I don't like the feel of this. Cramming the info into a smaller space makes reading it harder and everything seems more complicated. Then people will pay less attention to stat blocks and the devs will say "monsters are too complicated, we better oversimplify things", while ignoring how they made things more difficult to parse at a glance.

 

[mearls]

So has anyone taken a look at the new stat block format for D&D '24? At a first glance, I really like the two column format.

EDIT: The Basic Rules have a selection of familiar and summoned monster stat blocks.