D&D General Alternate Stats for Initiative [+]

If you're like me, you think that the Dexterity stat is overused in 5E D&D. You've already heard/read the discussions: blah blah most important stat, blee bloo attacks damage armor class, blah blah. You're not interested in flogging that dead horse; you're interested in doing something about it.

So you've decided to start small, something that will have a comparatively low impact in the game: Initiative.

This is a great post, and I like the openness to different ideas. While I agree with the premise (DEX is over-used and too important), I am not sure initiative is the place most in need of correction.

Given that DEX is combining agility, coordination, reflexes, and balance already, this seems an acceptable place for initiative. The biggest problem, in my view, is that Dex adds to damage of DEX-based attcks. I don't mind STR to hit and damage; but I think DEX attacks should also have their damage adjustment based on STR. That's where I would start. (Admittedly, this is a theoretical idea, not one I have tried out.).
 

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If I were to choose one other than Dexterity I would go with Intelligence. It's simply the ability to think quickly which I think can be applicable to a stressful situation like a fight. While I'd go with Intelligence, a strong case can be made for Wisdom as well. I don't think there's a good case for Strength, Constitution, or Charisma.
 



Why not have Initiative as a Skill? Skills in 5e and A5e can use any ability score during a skill check and they get better every time your PB goes up by 1. Also, every class would be proficient in it if it were a skill.
Sorry for the late reply, tough day at the office.

The biggest reason why I wouldn't want to do this (or several other options mentioned later in the thread) is that it would require me to update the stat blocks of hundreds of monsters/NPCs, to give them each a brand-new stat. I'd much prefer to just pick a bonus that is already there and click on it (we play over Roll20.)
 

How about bringing back Weapon speeds and Casting speeds? Not modified by ability scores, but what you have in hand/are going to do.
From what I can remember, weapon/casting speeds were needlessly complex, slowing the game down considerably and making things less fun. It just wasn't worth the effort. Not only that, but it didn't make a whole lot of sense. A dagger is quicker, sure, but if you've got a foot of steel and I've got three feet of steel in the form of a longsword I'm going to have an opportunity to hit you before you hit me. It doesn't make senese that I have a penalty to my initiative.
 

I havent read the thread but why not just let a player choose any Skill they have to make an Initiative check?
From a rules perspective, this just doesn't seem like a particularly elegant solution. Do we apply that to all areas of the game? Why not just let players choose whatever their best attributes are for all their rolls? We can justify it somehow I guess.
 

Sorry for the late reply, tough day at the office.

The biggest reason why I wouldn't want to do this (or several other options mentioned later in the thread) is that it would require me to update the stat blocks of hundreds of monsters/NPCs, to give them each a brand-new stat. I'd much prefer to just pick a bonus that is already there and click on it (we play over Roll20.)
Assuming you’re not using the initiative command in a sheet - I’d say your simplest alternative is a flat d20, or d20+specific initiative mods like Alert (which very few monsters have)
 

From a rules perspective, this just doesn't seem like a particularly elegant solution. Do we apply that to all areas of the game? Why not just let players choose whatever their best attributes are for all their rolls? We can justify it somehow I guess.
The characters are suppose to be heroes, and with the skill system what it is, why not let players use their best attributes in what is a very abstract part of the game? Why should Dexterity dominate initiative if other approaches can be justified? A Barbarian giving an intimidating roar causing the enemy to hesitate? why not?

When it comes to overcoming other obstacles their may be clear and expected skill synergies, but if players can come up with unexpected and creative ways to overcome those obstacles using alternate skills then I say give them the power to do so...
 

The characters are suppose to be heroes, and with the skill system what it is, why not let players use their best attributes in what is a very abstract part of the game? Why should Dexterity dominate initiative if other approaches can be justified? A Barbarian giving an intimidating roar causing the enemy to hesitate? why not?

When it comes to overcoming other obstacles their may be clear and expected skill synergies, but if players can come up with unexpected and creative ways to overcome those obstacles using alternate skills then I say give them the power to do so...
@MGibster is not advocating for Dexterity to dominate. He offered Intelligence as a replacement and possibly even Wisdom.
With your suggested example does the barbarian's roar work against every foe for initiative? Or does the player need to come up with a different tactic depending on the foe? Consider time consumption for those that roll initiative each round.
 

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