Your character died. Big deal.

[WarlockLord]

While reading these boards up to the advent of 4e, I have seen much discussion over save-or-dies and death. The great debate seems to be over the death of characters, which boils down to "Oh, no, my imaginary elf died." Reading the article on character death (which, in 4e, you can pop out 500 gp for a low-level raise dead) and how people might feel bad if their imaginary elf dies, makes no sense to me. Yes, your character is cool. Maybe they have a personality, whatever. But that doesn't change the fact that they're an imaginary elf in a fake world. It's a game.

 

[Chimera]

"Oh, no, my imaginary elf died."

I imagine it's a big deal.

 

[Crothian]

The death of a character can mean a lot more then what you claim it is. It all depends in the way your group plays and the effort put into a character. You can't really tell people how to grieve everyone does it their own way.

 

[Psion]

You have stumbled upon one of the great emerging divides in RPGs.

Some folks feel strongly--realy strongly--that you should have a player "green light" before axing their character.

For some folks (raises hand) risk is part of the game, and lack of token risk to the imaginary character takes an element of suspense and danger from the game.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

The big deal with our games is that when a character dies in a game. It is as big as having a major character in a story dying, so Sturm's death, Gandalf's, etc. are like that.

So, for us the big deal is that it can fundamentally alter the story, campaign, etc.

Thus why death we try to keep away from, since for us the fun is playing through a story all-together with our characters from the beginning.

 

[Treebore]

You have stumbled upon one of the great emerging divides in RPGs.

Some folks feel strongly--realy strongly--that you should have a player "green light" before axing their character.

For some folks (raises hand) risk is part of the game, and lack of token risk to the imaginary character takes an element of suspense and danger from the game.

Yep. I don't like it when a character I like dies, and I don't know of anyone who is truly detached from their PC, and not bothered by their PC death.

Kill it before I "connect" to it, and I don't care, but do it after I "connect" and I will care, but I do take/accept it as part of the risk, and why this game ultimately is a challenge and fun to play.

 

[Fifth Element]

But that doesn't change the fact that they're an imaginary elf in a fake world. It's a game.

You're missing the point. Or the points, even.

1. Character death means you have to stop playing for a time, perhaps a significant amount of time. You're there to play the game, not watch others play it. Therefore character death is annoying.

2. With save-or-dies specifically, it's not death that's the problem, it's the instantaneous, one-d20-roll-determines-it-all nature of the death. Many people do not find that fun. "You rolled a 1 on your save? Too bad, you're dead. Stop playing now."

 

[justanobody]

So then, why no save-or-die effects in 4th?

 

[Emirikol]

Character death only matters if the DM has not told players what to expect for their "next" character:

WHAT WILL IT BE?

a. are they going to be the same level with the same xp and choice of equivalent items while the dead character is buried with his stuff (sans important campaign stuff of course)
or,
b. You lose a level and the DM is going to be a big jerk about it and you start with a stick and not clothes and shut the heck up for whining
or,
c. You put a lot of time into your character, including painting a miniature, and even though the DM preps for 2-4 hours every session, the mere thought of you having to spend 14 minutes creating a new character is just too ghastly
or,
d. you have to try to reintegrate your charcter into the group because the DM is one of THOSE DM's who feels it's necessary to have you play out how your character meets the other characters and make it like an agonizingly annoyingly trivial crap hazing ritual or something.

Just my opinion..

jh

 

[Fifth Element]

So then, why no save-or-die effects in 4th?

See point 2 in my post immediately before yours. I believe that was the basic rationale for removing save-or-die effects.