Your character died. Big deal.

[justanobody]

See point 2 in my post immediately before yours. I believe that was the basic rationale for removing save-or-die effects.

Well if death isn't supposed to be a big deal, so what?

All death is instantaneous. Some instants just take longer to get to than others and are more melodramatic.

Either you are alive or dead. So it is always an instant change, and dice always affect that.

Save-or-die means little in the big picture. No different than that last hit Orcus that did it. Except you don't have a chance to save from a hit from Orcus. Attack rolls offer no chance to save at all.

I would rather take the chance of that 1 on a dice, than have no chance at all.

 

[Fifth Element]

Well if death isn't supposed to be a big deal, so what?

All death is instantaneous.

You're misreading me. Death by a single die roll, even when you are at full health and have taken reasonable precautions, but then say you roll sucky for initiative, and one failed save later, you're out of the game without even having had a chance to act, sucks to many people.

Anyway, there have been numerous threads on this very issue and I don't mean to start such a discussion again.

 

[shilsen]

You have stumbled upon one of the great emerging divides in RPGs.

Some folks feel strongly--realy strongly--that you should have a player "green light" before axing their character.

For some folks (raises hand) risk is part of the game, and lack of token risk to the imaginary character takes an element of suspense and danger from the game.

And, of course, there are many variations to the divide which don't fall into the categories above. For example, I like to have a fair amount of risk in the game and especially repercussions for failure on the part of the PCs. But I personally find death (especially permanent character death) to be a particularly boring risk/repercussion, plus I like my players to be able to play the characters they want (and to do so as a player). So I've eliminated death as a repercussion in my games, while retaining a lot of risk and consequences for failure. It's easy to do and my game is much the better for it.

 

[Fifth Element]

For some folks (raises hand) risk is part of the game, and lack of token risk to the imaginary character takes an element of suspense and danger from the game.

But by the OP's reasoning, there is no risk, because it's just an imaginary elf in a game of make-believe.

 

[Fifth Element]

And, of course, there are many variations to the divide which don't fall into the categories above.

Indeed. False dichotomies are frequent in these here parts.

 

[JeffB]

For some folks (raises hand) risk is part of the game, and lack of token risk to the imaginary character takes an element of suspense and danger from the game.

Me Three. I try to avoid playing with people who get way too attached to their pieces of paper.

Some of my fondest RPG memories are ways my characters died or the way PCs died at my hands (mewhahahahahah)

Of course it takes alot longer these days to make a character with 4E, and 3E is even worse, but oh well- roll up another PC, have a backup, whatever.

 

[Fifth Element]

Of course it takes alot longer these days to make a character with 4E, and 3E is even worse, but oh well- roll up another PC, have a backup, whatever.

Having a backup character ready is a fine idea, but that doesn't mean the character will be able to get into the game immediately. Thumb-twiddling is still a real possibility.

 

[justanobody]

You're misreading me. Death by a single die roll, even when you are at full health and have taken reasonable precautions, but then say you roll sucky for initiative, and one failed save later, you're out of the game without even having had a chance to act, sucks to many people.

Anyway, there have been numerous threads on this very issue and I don't mean to start such a discussion again.

IF death isn't that big a deal then what difference does it make whether you were at full health and it happened or not? Dead PC = dead PC. Roll a new one, or get a rez. How it happened doesn't matter as that is in the past. No sense crying over spilt milk.

 

[Korgoth]

Risk of death is part of what makes an adventurer an adventurer. Without it, he's just a tourist.

To me, saying you want to play D&D without the risk of character death is like saying you want to play Risk except that none of your territories can be conquered. What? That's what it's about: triumph or destruction.

 

[Fifth Element]

How it happened doesn't matter as that is in the past.

Sure it does. What matters is the perception that you couldn't do anything to prevent it. If you get into melee, at least you have a chance to whack the bad guys as they're trying to whack you. Even if you fail there, you at least had a chance. And death in melee is generally by degree, where your hit points get lower and lower, giving you chances to break off and flee (though certainly not always).

But if an enemy wizard beats your initiative and fires off a death spell, many players feel they didn't have any real chance of avoiding it. One roll and they're done.