Your input on a non-magic assassin prestige class

[DM-Rocco]

My DM and I are making a non magic assassin prestige class. It is for a G&G world (if you are not familiar with G&G, low or no magic, Hit Points usually equal your con + 1 HP a level, if you are lucky. Very deadly)

Anyway, I don't want to say what we have so far, because I would like your input first.

So far, I will say, that we are thinking about full attack bonus and better save and most likely more skill points.

I would like to see a better death attack. Something that could be used in combat, even if they are aware of you.

No posion

It is mainly a combat assassin class, not so much sneak around and study from afar, so tricky/sneaky combat moves encouraged.

Be creative

I already proposed feats from the assassin's handbook and one or two things from the PHBII.

He won't go for something like invisability, I am still trying to get him to reconsider hide in plain sight.

So far here is our Requirements: BAB +6, Bluff +9, Improved Feint

Here is the normal assassin

Normal assassin class (minus spells)
Skills: 4 + INT modifier
Hit Die: d6
Requirements: Any evil alignment, disguise 4 ranks, hide 8 ranks and move 8 ranks
Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special
1st +0 +0 +2 +0 Death Attack* , sneak attack +1d6, poison
2nd +1 +0 +3 +0 uncanny dodge, +1 save against poison
3rd +2 +1 +3 +1 sneak attack +2d6
4th +3 +1 +4 +1 +2 save against poison
5th +3 +1 +4 +1 sneak attack +3d6, improved uncanny dodge
6th +4 +2 +5 +2 +3 save against poison
7th +5 +2 +5 +2 sneak attack +4d6
8th +6 +2 +5 +2 hide in plain sight, +4 save against poison
9th +6 +3 +6 +3 sneak attack +5d6
10th +7 +3 +6 +3 +5 save against poison

 

[Hypersmurf]

Moved to House Rules.

-Hyp.
(Moderator)

 

[DM-Rocco]

House rules, hmm, I guess it is.

Anyway, think more of a duelest that is more offensive rather than defensive.

 

[DM-Rocco]

looks like no one likes to comment on the house rules forum. No offense Hyper, but I wish you would have let this in the general disscussion forum. I could have got feed back there.

 

[Stormborn]

You aren't getting any feedback most likely because what you have already said works. No spells, Full BAB, Better saves, more Skills.

However, I think you explination of what your want is fundamentally flawed. You seem to me to be describing a character that can function is straight up combat, thats not an assassin. An assassin does things from a distance, through subterfuge, trickery, and any illicit means possible. Thus i think the assassin PrC makes perfect sense for what an assassin does in a DnD world.

It sounds like you want something more like an Executioner or Headsman kind of class. My suggestion is to take the Shinning Blade of Heironaeous and change the weapon abilities to Bane (choosen 1/day and set for the whole day), Negative energy imparting, and vorpal at 10th or something like that. You might also want to look at the Executioner from Iron Heroes. If you had a vow not to use any magic items nor recieve the benifit from any helpful spell the classess in that book can be incorporated into DnD just fine.

 

[Imruphel]

How about just use the normal assassin but ditch the spells and give it a full BAB to reflect the better combat skills.

That's largely what I have done but have also downgraded the sneak attack to sudden strike and increased the hit die to a d8. I think I also gave it hide in plain sight.

 

[starwed]

looks like no one likes to comment on the house rules forum. No offense Hyper, but I wish you would have let this in the general disscussion forum. I could have got feed back there.

If this type of thread was considered General, then you might as well get rid of the House Rules forum completely.

It is mainly a combat assassin class, not so much sneak around and study from afar, so tricky/sneaky combat moves encouraged.

It might be worth looking at the Tome of Battle for some ideas here, especially the Shadow Hand school. In fact, you could simply ask your DM to allow you a few maneuvers to replace the spell progrssion. Something like one maneuver every other level, recharging like a swordsage.

 

[DM-Rocco]

You aren't getting any feedback most likely because what you have already said works. No spells, Full BAB, Better saves, more Skills.

However, I think you explination of what your want is fundamentally flawed. You seem to me to be describing a character that can function is straight up combat, thats not an assassin. An assassin does things from a distance, through subterfuge, trickery, and any illicit means possible. Thus i think the assassin PrC makes perfect sense for what an assassin does in a DnD world.

It sounds like you want something more like an Executioner or Headsman kind of class. My suggestion is to take the Shinning Blade of Heironaeous and change the weapon abilities to Bane (choosen 1/day and set for the whole day), Negative energy imparting, and vorpal at 10th or something like that. You might also want to look at the Executioner from Iron Heroes. If you had a vow not to use any magic items nor recieve the benifit from any helpful spell the classess in that book can be incorporated into DnD just fine.

Well, good advice. I was origianlly trying to find alternatives to teh death attack. The death attack makes sense for aiming a bow at a far range and then striking when they are not looking. However, sneaking up to someone and studing them for 3 rounds and then stabbing them without them knowning you are there, totally dumb, in my opinion. I really like the killing blow class ability from the assassins handbook, but was looking for other too.

WHere is the Shinning Blade of Heironaeous from?

How about just use the normal assassin but ditch the spells and give it a full BAB to reflect the better combat skills.

That's largely what I have done but have also downgraded the sneak attack to sudden strike and increased the hit die to a d8. I think I also gave it hide in plain sight.

Yes, but a full BAB only gives a net of +3 to your attack over 10 levels, hardly a compensation for a lack of magic that gives you things like +20 to hit, undetaecability and the thing that rocks most of all, greater invisability.

Where is sudden strike from and what does that do?

If this type of thread was considered General, then you might as well get rid of the House Rules forum completely.

Hmm, good point

It might be worth looking at the Tome of Battle for some ideas here, especially the Shadow Hand school. In fact, you could simply ask your DM to allow you a few maneuvers to replace the spell progrssion. Something like one maneuver every other level, recharging like a swordsage.

That is a good idea, I didn't think of that.

 

[Stormborn]

Shining Blade is a Prestige Class in Complete Divine.

EDIT: Oh and to show you how an Assassin could work:

A PC in my game had been going into bars and starting fights, and in sometimes killing people. The city was based on commerce, so while he could have been sued or fined, the laws weren't like a normal city. However, I decided that one of the bars he was in was a Union bar, and that they hired and assassin to get him. A few sessions later while the PCs were in the market place a barber appealed to the PCs vanity and offered to give him a shave and hair cut. The hair cut was first, then the shave. A long straight razor. Needless to say the barber was the assassin. I did allow the PC and an ally that was waiting his turn a Sense Motive to see that the Barber was up to something (I rolled for them). The ally made it, but the assassin made his move anyway. The PC succeeded in his save against the death attack, but did succumb to the Str sapping poision that was on the blade. Given the presetablished rules about who the healers were willing to heal and when, the PC was in bad shape for a while, but the others rounded up his assailant and collected a reward. Taught the PC, and player a lesson.

Basically I think the assassin is either meant to be NPC only, or played meant to shine in non-combat situarions useing trickery.